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Kickstarter Too many Kickstarter projects? Is Kickstarter the new d20 glut?

ahayford

First Post
It can do whatever it wants; this isn't a question of legality. The question is whether that muddies the water so that you can no longer even find the meritorious projects. Moreover, in the case of a big organization, it's somewhat unethical, though not illegal.
Unethical? what? How is it unethical?
 

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Alarian

First Post
I've backed 32 projects so far and I'm happy to say other than one ones still running or recently ended, all but 1 has delivered. Of the one that hasn't delivered yet (it closed a year ago in June.) they are still updating fairly regularly and still promising product. All in all, I've been very happy with my experiences.
 

ahayford

First Post
And just to throw this out there, I'd love to see a company as awesome as Paizo do a Kickstarter to try and fund something really experimental and unique. Or, honestly, I'd love if they'd do a "Bones" version of their prepainted mini's like Reaper is doing.
 

I like kickstarter but am very choosy about backing. I'm currently strongly behind Shadows of Esteren mainly for two reasons. One, the creators say it is already printed and will be delivered at Gen Con 2012. Two, it is an international effort and I really like to see some guys and gals from France come over to the US, translate their game, and go to cons to promote it.

I have backed three kickstarters. One is very late but a beta is promised soon, one will show up eventually for sure (Dim Sun), and Shadow is promised in August. I will likely back Monte Cook's kickstarter as well.

A local publisher (Gaming Paper) also uses kickstarter. I know the owner and he would have a tougher time getting going without kickstarter and he does honest work.

So I like kickstarter. You just have to be careful. It isn't much different than pre-ordering from a game company you like. If they don't deliver and don't refund your pre-order you don't have a lot of options.
 

Cergorach

The Laughing One
Kickstarter has many advantages, one of which is 'free' marketing. The KS website acts as a hub for projects, nicely categorized, and easily accessible for the consumer. Also trust is an issue, KS is trusted enough to handle our payment information until the project is actually funded.

And let's not forget the website itself, if you think that building a (crowdsourcing) website is easy, your doing it wrong or you don't know what your talking about. The folks that run KS have as their core business their website, so it's in their best interest to have a save and efficient website. You as a startup or even established company don't have a website as your core business (with a few exceptions). Especially these days when laws regarding website and data security are established and can (in the near future) be heavily fined if security is deemed lacking and your customer information is hacked/stolen.

What's this CoolMiniOrNot website that was supposed to fund a removed KS project? Haven't heard anything about it, haven't seen anything about it, and can't find anything about it. The only projects I know about 'that CMON did are Zombicide and Sedition Wars, both on KS. And I seriously doubt that they would have been that successful if they were done on a private website instead of KS, the same goes for Ogre, Order of the Stick, Reaper Bones, etc.

The advantage of an established company/person/brand doing a KS is that customers are more then likely to actually get the product in their hands. A company knows how popular their product will be and what customers want to see through feedback. Just look at the Ogre boardgame, no way did the designer expect that many folks to want his old boardgame (as he admits). So we as customers get a better quality boardgame (more better stuff in the final box) and actually enough units to satisfy those who preordered and folks that want to buy one in a store. Heck, I wish that Games Workshop would do a KS for a plastic Thunderhawk (when I have the cash for it) ;-)

Now, don't get me wrong, I still expect projects to fail miserably after they are funded. But imho that risk is bigger in other categories, like video games, or tech products. The current biggest risk is the OUYA ($99 Android gaming console), currently has close to $6 million (and still 10 days to go).

I don't think that there are to many KS projects per se, as long there enough folks willing to fund them and get their promised products, it's a great system. The problem is the reporting on sites like these, each KS project has as much news 'value' on the main site as anything else, that is a mistake imho.
 

Stereofm

Adventurer
Supporter
I think that's the point of them. Were you supporting things you didn't really like? If so, you may have been doing it wrong. :)
Oh well no.

I have been thinking about the problem : what bugs me is that I find conventional distrbution easier to use so far, the fact that you need to know about the project to fund it (thumbs up for your site), the bonuses where you feel you need to overspend, and mostly, mostly the DELAYS ...

Between the time you order and get your book, there are months.

Well you can't have everything I guess.
 

DaveMage

Slumbering in Tsar
So nearly 100 items in three months seemed to be a good landmark to ask: is this too many? Is it yet reaching the point where you see the title and think "Oh, not another Kickstarter...."? Or is that spirit of opportunity and entrepreneurism still appealing? And is there a point at which our little industry is going to be "tapped out" - where people will just be unwilling to donate to more projects? After all, it's not like we have the wide market of, say, iPhone accessories or video games.

It'd be interesting to hear your thoughts on the number of Kickstarter projects being launched at present, so please do feel free to post a response below.
Getting back to this, I would like to see Kickstarter projects on the news page, but would it be possible to confine them to one "block"? Rather than list each new project as its own news "block", perhaps have a dedicated Kickstarter block that lists each new project with one line such as "New Kickstarter from Frog God Games: Rappan Athuk" and then a link if they want more info.

That way the news page isn't cluttered with Kickstarters but people can still see the list of the latest ones. (As a new one is added the Kickstarter "block" could rise on the news page.)
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Getting back to this, I would like to see Kickstarter projects on the news page, but would it be possible to confine them to one "block"? Rather than list each new project as its own news "block", perhaps have a dedicated Kickstarter block that lists each new project with one line such as "New Kickstarter from Frog God Games: Rappan Athuk" and then a link if they want more info.

That way the news page isn't cluttered with Kickstarters but people can still see the list of the latest ones. (As a new one is added the Kickstarter "block" could rise on the news page.)
Ah, well you see that would involve me doing it manually rather than automating it as I do at present.
 

cyderak

First Post
It beats "Taking out a loan" to get started.

And lets look at the up-sides:
--The small company putting a product out is gaining mico-investors to actually bring their product to realization. A product that probably, without Kick-starter, would'nt see the light of day.
--The Kick-Starter investors get perks for certain branches of investment and free copies of the finished product before anyone else.
--The company making the product doesn't have to pay a loan back with interest. The project is just paid for.


If people think there are "too many" Kick-starters showing up, then thoroughly read through the description and think about your decision to invest in a particular project thoroughly before doing so.

Personally, I think this post is a kick in the head to anyone posting a kick-Starter project on EnWorld. Let the people investing in the project make the decision of whether a project is worth it or not, instead of putting that doubt in their minds.
 

Revinor

First Post
Personally, I think this post is a kick in the head to anyone posting a kick-Starter project on EnWorld. Let the people investing in the project make the decision of whether a project is worth it or not, instead of putting that doubt in their minds.
What about posting stories from Nigerian inheritance scammers on the front page and letting people decide which of them is valid?

Main discussion is not about fact if kickstarer rpg projects are worth investing in. It is about the fact that sheer number of them start looking like a spam and people visiting enworld might be interested in other rpg-related news rather than wading through tens of random garage rpg projects.
 

Lwaxy

Cute but dangerous
I'd prefer a forum for kickstarters and the very promising/cool/prominent ones to be in the news only.
 

DaveMage

Slumbering in Tsar
Ah, well you see that would involve me doing it manually rather than automating it as I do at present.
Yeah, that's not gonna work unless you're really, really bored. :)

Maybe then a separate kickstarter page that's automated like the front news page, but a "permanent block" on the front news page that says "Click here for the latest Kickstarters!" that automatically rises when a new one is posted to the separate Kickstarter page?

And if so, can it count new posts automatically? If the above was adopted, could the front page say something like "6 new kickstarters today!" or somesuch?
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
6 out of 16 of the news items on the front page right now are Kickstarter projects. So I guess the question could be rephrased as: "Is a full third of the news being Kickstarter announcements too much?"
 

ShadowDenizen

Explorer
Interesting topic, and thanks for posting, Morrus.

I think there is a current glut of KickstarterProjects, personally. And it's apt to compare it to the early days of the D20 glut.

But we're in the very early stages of this fad, and I think, as with the D20 glut, this will tend to even itself out, where quality will eventually prevail over quantity.

I do think that the site would be benefited by having a "Kickstarter" page or forum, as some peolple have mentioned, as an inordinately large amount of the "news" items are about these projects. (Though I certainly don't object to some of the more innovate/important/promising ones make the newsfeed.)
 

jaerdaph

#BlackLivesMatter
6 out of 16 of the news items on the front page right now are Kickstarter projects. So I guess the question could be rephrased as: "Is a full third of the news being Kickstarter announcements too much?"
I wonder if the reason for this is simply because Kickstarter is becoming the new dominant model for RPG product development now over the traditional one? It makes sense for an RPG publisher - any RPG publisher regardless of size or years of experience - to Kickstart because a) they have to spend less money up front, b) they learn if there is a demand for a particular product or not, and c) they lose less up front money if there is no demand. At the end of the (successful) Kickstarter, they then have a product they can then sell in the traditional venues as well. I've only contributed to three Kickstarters and one IndieGoGo, but I have purchased several products that were initially crowd funded from RPGNow after the fact.

At the end of the day, you still need to offer something people want, and crowd funders need to be smart consumers (caveat vendor).
 
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jaerdaph

#BlackLivesMatter
Oh, and I don't think comparing the growing number of Kickstarters to the d20 glut is entirely accurate. The d20 glut was essentially an excessive amount of product for a single system. Kickstarter RPG products cover a wider range of game systems, both new ones and existing ones.
 

Ahnehnois

First Post
I don't buy things without getting a read on them first. Paging through a book, reading some reviews. I don't usually buy things after doing that. I'm a discriminating consumer.

There aren't many things at all that I would do in Kickstarter form. I don't really want to see them as news items this much.
 


ahayford

First Post
What's this CoolMiniOrNot website that was supposed to fund a removed KS project? Haven't heard anything about it, haven't seen anything about it, and can't find anything about it. The only projects I know about 'that CMON did are Zombicide and Sedition Wars, both on KS. And I seriously doubt that they would have been that successful if they were done on a private website instead of KS, the same goes for Ogre, Order of the Stick, Reaper Bones, etc.
My mistake, Soda Pop Miniatures was the company, and Tentacle Bento was the project.
 

wrightdjohn

First Post
It will be interesting to see how the wheat is separated from the chaff over time. Eventually the number (maybe it's now for me) will overwhelm people's ability to review what's out there. It will definitely lead to more discernment. I've participated in a few. I always ask myself the question - what is the money needed for? Some things are such a low start up cost that I believe the kickstart isn't necessary.

I prefer a project that needs the money to pay vendors and not the primary author. So on a module the art requires an artist be hired so thats fine. I don't expect the module writer to use it as income.

Anyway. I think kickstart is here to stay and it performs a great service. It needs to work hard to keep the right projects under the right eyes. If they can pull this off then they are doing well.
 

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