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Kickstarter Too many Kickstarter projects? Is Kickstarter the new d20 glut?

cyderak

First Post
What about posting stories from Nigerian inheritance scammers on the front page and letting people decide which of them is valid?

Main discussion is not about fact if kickstarer rpg projects are worth investing in. It is about the fact that sheer number of them start looking like a spam and people visiting enworld might be interested in other rpg-related news rather than wading through tens of random garage rpg projects.

So your saying those random garage RPG kick-starter projects are a nuissance to you?

Some of the articles about other RPG's that are posted on this site are useless to me.......but there are other people out there that like those RPG settings or rulesets and I realize that and you don't see me asking for them to be ousted from the site because the production quality isn't up to some peoples standards. I think if a kick-starter project has something to do with Role Playing Games, it should be allowed.
 

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prosfilaes

Adventurer
I'd say my results with Kickstarter have been mixed; I've bought some $45-50 dollar board games that turned out to be bombs. The $10 stuff has been a mixed bunch, but not really any more so then the stuff I bought off DriveThruRPG. Some times it's been nice being a part of things; Florida's Purge: The Johns Committee Witch-hunt helped the production of a small documentary of a bit of American history.

Order of the Stick was awesome; it was nice getting the books, and all the goodies are fun. I suspect the PDF miniatures may be worth $35 by themselves at the end of the day.

I did leave the City of Clocks Kickstarter, though. It wasn't something I particularly needed, and offering four rules supplements as bonus goals, and putting Pathfinder (the first or second best selling game on the market) last. In retrospect, only the OpenQuest rules supplement made it, and a D&D rules supplement (Swords and Wizardry was #2 on their list) would have been so much more useful to most people.
 

Krug

Newshound
Looking at the RPG Kickstarters page (RPG Kickstarters), only four of the projects have reached their funding goal, out of about 14 projects. Of those unfunded projects, I'm skeptical that 75% of them will achieve their goals.

I think it's starting to run itself dry. How many superhero/zombie/steampunk rule sets do people need? I'm ok with it still being featured on the front page, because it is still news, and easy to just skip if you've no interest whatsoever in 'em.
 

gamerprinter

First Post
Of those unfunded projects, I'm skeptical that 75% of them will achieve their goals.

Well Kaidan KS is at 75% to goal with 48 days to go - I'd like to think mine was among the 25% outside your skepticism. Plus we're adding new pledge bonuses including exclusive one-shot adventures, which should help.
 
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ShinHakkaider

Adventurer
I've been tempted by quite a few Kickstarter projects but have only contributed to two so far: Rappan Athuk and Tabletop Forge. I may contribute to the Reaper Bones oneas well.

At this point the only RPG company I spend money on Paizo and if I'm spending money on a Kickstarter project it's because I'm excited about it, want to support it and of course it's something I perceive to be of value and want.
 


Revinor

First Post
Looking at the RPG Kickstarters page (RPG Kickstarters), only four of the projects have reached their funding goal, out of about 14 projects. Of those unfunded projects, I'm skeptical that 75% of them will achieve their goals.

I'm a lot more worried about ones which get funded but will fail to deliver on time (or at all).
 

enrious

Registered User
To date I've only backed 2 projects - and they were done by people who'd released products before.

The gaming related project was for a city mapping program by Inkwell, who has released a number of other mapping software programs and I knew that part of my pledge would fund the purchase of some of those existing programs. Had it been someone's first product and/or they had no track record, I seriously doubt I'd have pledged.

I wouldn't hand over money to a stranger on the street to make a gaming product and I view Kickstarter the same way.
 

prosfilaes

Adventurer
I'm a lot more worried about ones which get funded but will fail to deliver on time (or at all).

Like any other preorder, I think stressing about delays isn't worth it. Don't order it if you need it by a certain date. As for at all, well, maybe. I'm sure it happens. So far, I've pledged 36 Kickstarters, with 19 of them being completed, 8 being late, and 9 being in progress. I'm not particularly worried about any of those 8 taking the money and running.

I'm sure I'll have a more emotional response if one of those does do a runner. But realistically, losing ten or fifteen bucks isn't the end of the world, and so far I don't know of any Kickstarters that haven't delivered at all. I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist, but I am saying that I don't think the problem exists at a level I should be really concerned about.
 

Chris_Nightwing

First Post
Two things bother me about Kickstarters:

1) That they have become so ubiquitous that even big names are getting in on the act - completely undermining the principle of the system. It is a way for small projects to get off the ground without taking out a risky loan - the risk is taken on by the consumer. Large companies and big names who do this should damn well take out a loan, not shift the risk onto the consumer (see Recent Economic Collapse), especially as they typically take bigger risks that small projects.

2) It is only a matter of time before the system is exploited. I would be shocked if there isn't a man-in-the-middle scam up there right now. You just promise what someone else has promised, but put a lot more effort into making yourself well known. You charge $1 more per investor, and invest in the real project yourself every time someone invests in your project. You get free money, the project still goes ahead - and best of all you can spread the risk across multiple projects - just like being a hedge fund manager!
 

Debby

Explorer
I joined three Kickstarter projects: Order of the Stick, Rappan Athuk, and Journeys to the West. I probably would not have joined if there was no name recognition for me.

I'd rather gamble on the quality of a unknown source that was already completed from an e-retailer (RPGNow.com and Paizo.com tend to be my first looks because they often have reviews). Granted, even that hasn't prevented me from buying a total stinker on occasion. If nothing else, with the e-retailer I can always post my own review.

With Kickstarter, you get no outside feedback about how good or bad things are going other than what is posted. Order of the Stick was waaaay behind, though it was handled admirably and with more than a little humor. Kudos to Mr. Burlew. I wish everyone were as honest and upfront. Unfortunately, that is not always the case.

I suppose that anyone who was burned by a failed project could take it to Small Claims Court, but what a hassle. For most people, it wouldn't be worth the time and effort to recoup a small loss. For bigger losses it wouldn't be out of the question.

As for advertising on the front page: I skim it usually. If something catches my eye, then perhaps I'll read more. We gamers are a fickle bunch so there's no way of pleasing everyone. As long as things aren't bunched up, I think putting all the Kickstarter Projects in one place wouldn't be bad. The glut will eventually decrease.
 

ahayford

First Post
Two things bother me about Kickstarters:

1) That they have become so ubiquitous that even big names are getting in on the act - completely undermining the principle of the system. It is a way for small projects to get off the ground without taking out a risky loan - the risk is taken on by the consumer. Large companies and big names who do this should damn well take out a loan, not shift the risk onto the consumer (see Recent Economic Collapse), especially as they typically take bigger risks that small projects.

I just don't see this as being a legitimate argument. Crowd funding is something that should be open to all levels of development. Smaller projects have an opportunity to get an audience...and larger projects have an opportunity to prove themselves to the fans rather then having to go through outside sources to get money.

You mention banks and loans...but typically gaming projects do not get money this way. They have to go through venture capitalists. For video game companies, this typically means that fun and game play can take a backseat to what can generate the most revenue. A developer that is free of these puppet strings is free to create something that really resonates with the fans.

I might take a risk on a small unproven company for $15 if they had a good presentation, prototypes, etc....but for something where I'm throwing down a larger wad of cash, I want somebody that has proven they can bring a product to market. I have absolutely no problem with established companies using Kickstarter, the Patron Model, or any number of crowd funding sources to bring stuff to market quicker. Particularly when I get cheaper/free/exclusive stuff out of the deal. If you don't want to take that risk, don't pledge.

Two things bother me about Kickstarters:

2) It is only a matter of time before the system is exploited. I would be shocked if there isn't a man-in-the-middle scam up there right now. You just promise what someone else has promised, but put a lot more effort into making yourself well known. You charge $1 more per investor, and invest in the real project yourself every time someone invests in your project. You get free money, the project still goes ahead - and best of all you can spread the risk across multiple projects - just like being a hedge fund manager!

I just don't see this happening. The internet would figure this out pretty quickly and flambe anyone doing so. How would this work exactly anyway? Someone sets up a RPG setting source book and another person sets up a KS with the exact same product for more money?

A much more likely risk is someone taking the money and running....you can avoid/mitigate that by researching the KS creator and deciding if they are trustworthy.
 

Krug

Newshound
Two things bother me about Kickstarters:

1) That they have become so ubiquitous that even big names are getting in on the act - completely undermining the principle of the system. It is a way for small projects to get off the ground without taking out a risky loan - the risk is taken on by the consumer. Large companies and big names who do this should damn well take out a loan, not shift the risk onto the consumer (see Recent Economic Collapse), especially as they typically take bigger risks that small projects.

Have to disagree. In the case for Double Fine or Steve Jackson, the consumers are taking part of the risk. Besides, they also draw in more users for kickstarter/crowdfunding, and if it gives the consumer/funder a good fuzzy feeling, that's great. Double Fine went to Kickstarter to fund a game that nobody else wanted to fund, because it didn't fit the mold of what was in the market. I'm all for the big guys as it raises more awareness of crowdfunding.

2) It is only a matter of time before the system is exploited. I would be shocked if there isn't a man-in-the-middle scam up there right now. You just promise what someone else has promised, but put a lot more effort into making yourself well known. You charge $1 more per investor, and invest in the real project yourself every time someone invests in your project. You get free money, the project still goes ahead - and best of all you can spread the risk across multiple projects - just like being a hedge fund manager!

It's already being exploited and there's been at least one fake kickstarter that since has been removed. I won't be surprised if some big funded campaign, such as yet another ipod watch strap thingie, that falls through, which makes funders get more wary of what they're funding in future.
 

Mark CMG

Creative Mountain Games
Might be worthwhile doing a WotC roundup on Monday (as it seems you do), a Kickstarter roundup on Wednesday, and a Paizo roundup on Friday (I think that's when they send out their updates anyway). Fill in Tuesday and Thursday with other news items and essays that get promoted to News. In this way it avoids having the front page seemingly deluged or glutted with WotC blog posts, Kickstarter projects, and such, and the rest of the RPG News you wish to post along with the essays and editorials, as well as reviews, don't wind up getting lost in the shuffle.
 

gamerprinter

First Post
Might be worthwhile doing a WotC roundup on Monday (as it seems you do), a Kickstarter roundup on Wednesday, and a Paizo roundup on Friday (I think that's when they send out their updates anyway). Fill in Tuesday and Thursday with other news items and essays that get promoted to News. In this way it avoids having the front page seemingly deluged or glutted with WotC blog posts, Kickstarter projects, and such, and the rest of the RPG News you wish to post along with the essays and editorials, as well as reviews, don't wind up getting lost in the shuffle.

This.

Personally, as not a 4e gamer, nor someone interested in DDN, I find all the D&D news items more distracting and a nuissance. However, I realize there are many fans of that, so I don't bother complaining. However in the look at a possibility of removing the Kickstarter listings, I think over exposure of one companies news should be on the list to be removed as much.

Better to leave the News section as is, keeping both Kickstarters and D&D News - that would be my vote.
 


gamerprinter

First Post
I'm afraid you'll never escape D&D news on a site which began life as a D&D news site. ;)

Well, of course not, that's why I finished the last post with "keep things as they are."

Don't remove want I don't want removed, nor anyone else's preference...

3 or 4 DDN items would be fine, but more than half... I guess I have the same complaint as those seeing 1/3 of items as Kickstarter - actually that's plenty enough for any one kind of news item.
 
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Mark CMG

Creative Mountain Games
The other benefit to collecting much of the WotC, Paizo, and Kickstarter project news items on three different days is that they'd have some Prime News status on their own days. Plus, individual items can certainly be highlighted. And,of course, with the new ability to promote threads and mirror them on two forums is that the ones that gain particular traction would have the added benefit of breakout status. It's be a good way to make sure the site avoids becoming associated with just one effort or company, since it has grown far beyond its humble beginnings.
 


airwalkrr

Adventurer
Wow! It's like Morrus read my mind. I just opened my enworld newsletter today and saw anvils and axes at the top and thought "oh great, ANOTHER kickstarter." I think it's a far that will die down, but probably be with us for some Ike albeit to a lesser extent sometime very soon.
 

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