Too many vampires

[Sienna_Rose]

It is not that they are stronger..they are intelligent undead just like a lich...and have standard intelligence not some god awful high intelligence

But, they *are* stronger. Inhuman strength, to go with the literal meaning of the word. Plus their abilities and the special stuff that has to be done to kill them and make sure they stay dead.
Intelligence really doesn't figure in. Well, it can - but that all depends on the character and player. I'm sure a vampire can have intelligence as a dump stat; that doesn't make them less of a vampire. The abilities and undead status are really more important, as far as fighting them goes.

And, you rarely ever see a vampire who's a twinkie. I can't really think of any. They are snerts far more often. Why? Well, they're darn tough to kill and have a slew of special abilities, so it's easy to pull the 'you can't kill me' bit. Which really makes fights rather unfun and pointless for anyone facing off with them.

For those to whom the term 'snert' is unfamiliar, I have seen the same actions being called "god moding".

 

[BRANDIA]

Vincent I remember well. Lovely chap . Kept a dungeon full of convicted criminals to keep himself topped up on. I also remember him having a wife and children . Big cuddly daddy of a guy.. very good with the children I played back then.

 

[BRANDIA]

oh and yeah..I have nothing against people playing vamps anyway they like.. the good the bad and the ewwwww gross. If I don't want to play the game I use my freedom of destiny and have my girls avoid eye contact. It might be anoying for them when they want fast food but there are always plenty of romantic girlies who go in for all that domination stuff. Live and let unlive is what I say... be happy!

 

[Elf_Ariel]

so it's easy to pull the 'you can't kill me' bit. Which really makes fights rather unfun and pointless for anyone facing off with them.

So the theory is, that Ariel, as a vampire, and me as a player of said nibbler, should openly offer her up for slayin' to make the slayers look good? *Chuckles* I think the you cant kill me bit is more down to the fact that no one really wants their hard work murdered. (Again with that grey IC/OOC area) BAH! Even I am guilty!

And on that note, if folk go attacking vampires, with the slay you in one stroke routine, I dont blame them for not taking damage. I'm pretty sure it's well proven that I actually enjoy Ariel getting -owned- in a fight. But as soon at the stakes come out, she's outa there!

 

[Sienna_Rose]

So the theory is, that Ariel, as a vampire, and me as a player of said nibbler, should openly offer her up for slayin' to make the slayers look good? *Chuckles* I think the you cant kill me bit is more down to the fact that no one really wants their hard work murdered. (Again with that grey IC/OOC area) BAH! Even I am guilty!

And on that note, if folk go attacking vampires, with the slay you in one stroke routine, I dont blame them for not taking damage. I'm pretty sure it's well proven that I actually enjoy Ariel getting -owned- in a fight. But as soon at the stakes come out, she's outa there!

Oh, no, I don't mean they have to lie down and die (again, since they're undead).
And the single strike auto kills are just as bad as the 'you can't touch me'. It's like. . .the old kid game of Cops and Robbers. "Bam, I shot you, you're dead." "Nuh-uh, you missed!" Extremes of both sides gets tiresome.

 

[Eryk]

That's one of the reasons I could never get too terribly into playing hunter characters when I had them. It's easy enough to say, 'Well, I've been hunting the undead for 'x' number of years, I have powers of my own and I'm a force to be reckoned with and yadda yadda', but when it comes right down to it...you can't kill someone else's character without their say-so. So no matter how good your slayer may or may not be in all intents and purposes of their back story...it doesn't matter. They're still going to have to co-habit the Tavern, (for example) peacefully (for the most part) with the same creatures they supposedly have a vendetta of some sort against. Talk about on the job frustration. Damnable Freedom of Destiny always getting in the way.

And yes, quite a few people are very nice and will let you beat up on their leeches to an extent, at least most people that I've ever interacted with have been so curtious. They're not, however, going to let you just turn their beloved character into ash merely because it satisfies -your- character's expectations. And they shouldn't. There's an investment of emotion and time in our favorite characters, and it shouldn't ever be able to be yanked unceremoniously out from under one's feet. However, on the flip side of that, it comes back to the earlier point which I'll reiterate for those of you sitting in the back: you CANNOT KILL THEM. So I guess in a sense they are, in all technical aspects, invulnerable. Like every other character played in every other room available on ISRP. Yes, you can mess them up a bit, but at the end of the day, you'll just have to do it again, and again, and again every time you see them (working from the standpoint of a generic, obsessive vampire hunter who wouldn't just let it drop after a while), and that leads to nothing but grief. Maybe you don't want your character tied up in the same endless story of trouncing a leech just to have it bounce back up again. Maybe -they- want to play their own storylines without some hunter sneaking up and trying to have a stake barbeque every time they take their vampire into the tavern. And really, what self respecting hunter is going to say, "All right, mister blood-sucking monster. Now that you've had a good thrashing, I'm sure you've learned your lesson and we can leave it there.'

Bah. I've never had the patience required to play a character who would take such dedication and effort just to not be a frustrating experience. Of course, I am very, very lazy, which could account for quite a bit of that.

 

[Towey]

Now see wouldn't it be cool if people started play Vampire Spawn?

-Promptly gets removed by many black suited men and women in sunglasses-

[This has been yet another useless filler post by the player of one Towey. The orignal post has been censured due to off-topicness and the possible inflammatory remarks that could be made about it, him, and liches. We apologize for this inconveinance.

- The Management ]

 

[Warbridge]

Snert... Oh my, I think I'm getting a little misty with nostalgia. I was beginning to think that the old words had blown away like dust in the wind.

Apologies if the last post got a bit dense, I'm not supposed to write after 2am lest I run the risk of injuring myself or any potential audience. Two words to explain that: no proofreading. I will happily take terms like insightful and humorous; much better than "Quiet you."

What we're getting into is not about people who play vampires as a whole, but how to interact fairly with those that seem to flout the rules and feel they should be allowed to walk over whoever they like simply because they have the special dental plan. I don't think we're talking about the long term players whose understanding and play of their character has aged like a fine wine. We're not talking about the vampires that artfully deceive to appear like practically every other patron in the bar. Let's stick with the ones that bare their fangs all the time and flaunt their undeath like every night is dollar night at the movies.

The setting rules say that inhuman monsters and vampires need to mask their appearance in such a way to blend in. Smiling with a big old toothy grin then puffing into a cloud isn't what is usually called blending. The Tavern is set in an area where the locals don't look too kindly on monsters and unhuman creatures tromping through their fields. I'm all about playing around with the rules to unearth role playing opportunities: it's all about the story for me. Having a bunch of yahoos that can't keep 'em in their mouth because they think being a vampire means not having anything to fear or worry about kills the suspension of disbelief for others. And let me tell you, if you think being a vampire means not having anything to fear then you should do some reasearch on what angry mobs have done throughout history. Speaking on the subject of vampire lore, the peasants have found all kinds of interesting ways to kill a vampire and make it stick. Maybe vampires are strong, but they aren't stronger than fifty armed men that are intent on beheading said bloodsucker, sprinkling the wounds with holy water, stuffing garlic in the mouth, burying the body upside down next to a crossroads, and finishing off the night by flambeing the garlic stuffed head.

All I ever advocate is everyone having as level a playing ground to work with as possible. Considering the differences in game rules, character concepts, and play styles that is often asking a whole lot. If I'm trying to be fair to others when I'm playing then rubbing my nose in it by showing off your pointy pearlies is poor form.

As for the hunters and stakes flying in the face of a vampire RPer's emotional attachment to their character, I say color this as an opportunity. I never said anyone should run around willy nilly plunging a stake into anything with sharper than average canines. No one gets anywhere beyond being tossed in the river that way, and it would likely evoke some kind of group response from the vampire RPer's as they start feeling persecuted. What I'm talking about is a chance for vampires to do a little more than sit about idly and brood or take a nibble from the next wide-eyed thing that passes by. It's a role filled with the beat of leather wings in the blackest night, a little silk or velvet, and the whole thing dripping of sex and blood, but often it is played like a couple people chatting down at Starbucks over mochas. Live a little, or embrace the undeath, whatever floats your boat.

The hunters and the stakes are not necessarily literal. There are plenty of ways you can make anyone uncomfortable in a social situation, let alone making the unlife awkward for those with solar allergies. The challenge is to play the role and sew a little dischord without bruising anyone's real feelings. Beyond the opportunities for story and role play there are other considerations. If I had a quarter for every time I've heard "you don't know how to kill a vampire" I'd be looking for a Coinstar machine or rolling those coins up for the bank. Maybe I had it backwards all this time and the vampire wasn't the problem. Perhaps there is a misunderstanding about my role; could it be I gave the impression I was playing Joe Pitchfork the local farmer? I've played soldiers, spies, assassins, priests, witches, scouts, wizards, and yes even vampires when the story requires it: the one thing I think I should know how to do is ensure the undead are properly re-inhumed.

Vampires are powerful in both physical strength and special abilities. Vampires are also stealthy and subtle. Being brazenly open about the vampiric nature of a character could be considered as the character being suicidal. It is a bar filled with experienced adventurers that kill monsters on a regular basis. These people sell the treasure and body parts of dead monsters for beer money. Vampires should be cautious of such situations, assuming they want to be old vampires.

I say should, would, and maybe an awful lot. It isn't because I'm indecisive. I won't tell anyone how to play their character, but my characters lock horns with any character than can't offer a plausible story beyond "I'm a monster! Rarr!" then I honestly walk away from that interaction feeling like I've wasted part of my night. It's discouraging for no other reason that I am there to entertain and be entertained, and so is everyone else there.


War

"The pointy end goes into the other man..." - Zorro, The Mask of Zorro

 

[Ruthia]

Just a point of intrest. Even us long term players have our characters that are flaunty of what and who they are that they deserve to be beaten with a dumb stick. Heck I've even see a few Magi play ones I felt needed to be shot in the head We all have our stupid characters. I got two

 

[Warbridge]

True, Ruthia. We all get a little silly or full of ourselves sometimes. A reset switch in the form of a clue-by-four usually gets us back to rights.

I think everyone knows that there is a particular type of inconsiderate player that we're talking about and not every person who ever played a vampire or hurled a fireball as a wizard. No one is applying what is said across the entire group of vampires or any other group of players.

 

[Babylon Logos]

I say should, would, and maybe an awful lot. It isn't because I'm indecisive. I won't tell anyone how to play their character, but my characters lock horns with any character than can't offer a plausible story beyond "I'm a monster! Rarr!" then I honestly walk away from that interaction feeling like I've wasted part of my night. It's discouraging for no other reason that I am there to entertain and be entertained, and so is everyone else there.

Remind me one day to bring my little vampire around with you there one day. She'd love to idly chitchat with a decently made slayer other than the few close buds I dragged into my little web of distruction. That and I really want a reason to drag her out.

 

[Protector_corwin]

Now warbridge is the only one that I have read here that I caagree with...but it doesn't seem as if anyone else will listen to your advice War. I play drow who by the rules of the site must keep themselves hidden as well...and yet as I walk in the tavern at times people remark about it...the same with the vampire characters...I understand the people who have been playing for as long as I have, 20 some years, have their favorite characters...heck I just recently started another character up to have a whole new aspect on the game and yet it is still to be hidden..I thik War has the best advice and would suggest that those playing vampires might want to read and look into following some of it...granted we cannot force people to do it...but it would be nice.

 

[Cyath]

Well ..
I am actually kinda intimitated to comment upon this subject. I will say that when I first started playing Cyath ; I could be deliberately unfair and well....rather annoying( I am fairly certain I still am at times). But this was approximately 5-6 years ago. Do I regret the way I played Cyath back then ? ...you bet. Have I learned from my past mistakes?...most certainly.

I believe a vampire can act "good" in some respects.
I can only speak of Cyath and Byron. Cyath primarily because he seems to be the most active. Cyath will be very nice , very considerate and very thoughtful. He can be a friend to one and an enemy to another. Cyath will try to seduce ( if possible) or..simply just ignore people. He is unique. He has his own goals in mind and he will use his strengths to achieve them. By nature , he would be evil due to his cainite blood. As a person though.. he is deliberately evil. I've made him that way specfically. I realized a long time ago that I cannot conform to the "norm". I am familiar with White Wolf literature as well as Anne Rice , and so I have played Cyath with that influence.

Cyath is not an animal. He is able to think and to calculate quite effectively the pro's and con's of his actions. He may be hungry for blood at times , but as a hunter ; a predator ...he will rarely allow himself to go into a bloodlust.
The point I make is this : Cyath does not fit into the DnD description of a vampire because I do not wholly agree with them. He can be approached and he will most often then not , converse with you thoughtfully. He is not animalistic. He can control himself.
He comes on during daylight hours because frankly I cannot come on any other time ( Twins , Wife , Police= Very busy). I would never be able to play him for just that simple reason.
Ultimately I just want to have fun. I play Cyath the way I want him to be played. Sure he is not liked by some players. But that is the way he is. Do I try to make my rps interesting with others though? Do I respect someone's character and ask ooc before performing a certain skill upon them?. The answer would be yes. Most definately. I really want my fellow rper to enjoy themselves.

I suppose I ask for some patience. Understand that when someone starts a new character , it can be a little rocky at first. The player strives to mould the character into a being they can love and learn from. This may lead other rpers to be annoyed with said character as well. Thats normal. I just figuer if someone is really annoyed with a character , then why not just ignore them. Go on with your own character's daily life and not stress out about another's actions. Gradually through time , "unfair" " demi-god" characters will die out because no one will interact with them.
Give a vampiric player a chance is all I say. If they annoy you , then just ignore them , but also...try not to discard them immediately.
Thats all I got.
Take care.

 

[James V]

I've played two vamps, and well there is a very distinct line between good and evil alighnment, people tend to forget, bad people do at times do good things, perhaps to benefit themselves with intentions of causing problems, or selfish intentions, while a good person could make a sacrifice of sorts, which in many retrospects can be considered an evil thing to do, yet do it for a very good purpose, You see, being friendly isn't always being good...nor is it being bad at times, Take James, I alighned him for what he is as chaotic Neutral, but according to a DnD manuel, he should be chaotic Evil, why is he Chaotic Neutral, because in order to play him, I have to civilize him in some manner, does it mean he's evil, yes...does he act nice to some people who may be lawful and good...yes..why though? There is always something in it for him, vampires though I suppose are almost impossible to have this, because, its like this, Vampire, Damnit, Stake that thing!!!! I suppose though if they are able to hide it in a managible way, we should come up with them, espcially for the crt tavern, IE enchantments, things like that, so no one can go to them, and say, Damnit, a vampire, because they don't know. They can eventually know, but thats up to the characters descresion of how they act out upon it. I do believe though definately, There are way to many seperate vampires without any sires...I seriously think that they would go at each other for no other reasons other then territory sake of feeding, I read some where, vampires are naturally aggressive with others who have no affiliation with them.

 

[Babylon Logos]

Well ..
I believe a vampire can act "good" in some respects.

I don't feel that it is always an intent of 'acting' good. Granted the Vampire is a being inheirently evil, no matter what lore you look into. After all, they are likened to and in some instance refered to as, the children of Cain, born of the purpose of sin. Yet, they are always considered intelligent beings, not nessecarally overly intelligent, but rather having gathered the wisdom of their years. As intelligent, and wise beings vampires are allowed morals, which thus allows them the moral dilemna.

"What I am doing is wrong," is a phrase that should have passed the mind of any vampire at some point in life, especially of those unwillingly embraced, who may not fully accept the lifestyle they have been thrown into. It is therefore plausible to foresee the exsistance of a vampire living off rats and maybe the occassional Poodle instead of a being of higher intelligence. While this does not nessecarally make the vampire of a good alignment, it does at least adhere them to a moral code that is for it's intents 'stay alive and don't eat the people' still good.

Well ..
Cyath is not an animal . . . He can be approached and he will most often then not , converse with you thoughtfully. He is not animalistic. He can control himself.

A valid point, also something I find myself in agreement of, as would seem many of the vampire players I have seen in ISRP through there years, no matter how much of a jackass they may be, they all choose to play the race as an intelligent being of self-control.

Why is it that according to WOTC, a being of at least hero based stats, naturally above the average person, usually with an excessive amount of self-control and willpower to begin with, when taken by the embrace, and retaining if not bettering many of their stats will have less control of themselves than a lowly rat sensing a female in heat?

My solution is that they shouldn't. As intelligent beings, regardless of being Undead, or Chaotic Evil, the vampire should be alloted at least as much self-control as in life, and through the years, much much more. After all, randomly killing townsfolk because of a minor case of the munchies that coudl easily be settled by munching on a rat kept in a snackbox draw the attention of the aforementioned 'experianced adventurers' aching for some teeth to sell for beer money, and maybe some loving at the local brothel.

Besides, when you feed of populations, and assist in population control self-control = longer life. A small town is less likely to call for a hunter over a vampire that practices the self-control they should be alotted, killing maybe one person a month, usually taking the elderly, people who will be dying soon anyway, than a vampire that wipes out a family in a single dining session. Granted, having company over might encourage the family meal, but still . . .

Anyhow, I'm out of time on my rant juice, time for me to head to class and the 45 minute hell of Pittsburgh rush hour to get downtown . . .

 

[shistal]

Good god people, a vampire is a vampire no matter what is. Some people to role play them from what they have seen or read. A new series has just come out about vampires and that's Twilight series...that's where vampire can walk out during the day, they just might shine like thousand diamonds but they still drink blood and live for ever. So quiet fighting and arguing over this. I mean really just let someone be a vampire if they want to . This site is suppose to be a fun place just hang out and role play. Not say this race is to out of control or this race is the perfect race kind of thing. Just let it go.

 

[Imreis]

I'm going to agree with Shistal here on this. Besides people can't play the all evil animalistic vampire in any setting except the Sigil setting (Bazaar and Cage) I would think for they would break the code of conduct rules that have been laid out. Nextly - good and evil vampires, vampires who 'daywalk' (i put that in quotations because heck some people can only come on during the day or are in different time zones so its a hard thing to peg); all this is circumstantial in the long run.

What about players who play good drow, neutral drow, lawful drow, etcetera. We could say well they aren't playing drow there just playing dark skinned elves because they aren't played to the DnD standard of the race. We cold say anyone playing a evil sun elf is not playing it right because they are innately and usually good beings. This list goes on. I guess my point here is that people will play what they want. They get good ideas in there head they want to see run out and played and will do it.

The whole not dying and not wanting to loose a character we all have agreed on that no one wants it - and i also agree. But the thing I also agree on is the horribly powerful characters who never ever loose a fight and never get even a scratch is hard to cope with. There are other ways to have evil characters who don't get killed in a fight. Run away.

Play to the cliche movie titles where the bad guy feels the fight might not go his way who vanishes to live and fight another day. It gives the heroes time to recuperate as well, and makes the fights far more fun when in the middle of it the villain laughs evily and vanishes in a cloud of dust or flies off - any good idea would work here. The same goes for the hero who makes a tactical retreat to the rear when the battle isn't going his/her way.

In closing, it is not just vampires who play like this. Anyone playing any character is capable of playing annoyingly powerful characters - vampires are just the trend right now...as are demons, devils, humans, elves and halflings.

 

[Tharivious]

Besides people can't play the all evil animalistic vampire in any setting except the Sigil setting (Bazaar and Cage) I would think for they would break the code of conduct rules that have been laid out.

And no one has advocated it. If anything, it's been almost universally decried as bad writing on D&D's end of things. Evil, on the other hand, can absolutely be played in any setting, just not by people who don't understand how intelligent (or at least, not moronic) evil works when inside a society - those types either get themselves killed or banned (or ignored), depending on how foolish the vampire in question is.

What about players who play good drow, neutral drow, lawful drow, etcetera. We could say well they aren't playing drow there just playing dark skinned elves because they aren't played to the DnD standard of the race. We cold say anyone playing a evil sun elf is not playing it right because they are innately and usually good beings. This list goes on.

And they'd all be strawmen that hold no weight relative to vampires. Those races aren't inherently aligned by nature (with the exception of Greyhawk drow), and they don't feed off of other living beings by draining their blood or life-force. Those are societally inclined races that make those alignments highly unlikely, but not impossible (and that's from someone who believes good aligned members of any organized evil race shouldn't live past their childhood, as the society should cull or subvert such weakness from its numbers), and even then, yes, you often get eyerolls when it comes to good-acting drow. More accurately would be a good aligned demon (or openly evil angel, although it's worth noting that good turning evil is a far simpler thing than evil turning good), which get groans of disbelief and rolling eyes from the vast majority I've seen, as their very nature turns these anti-stereotypes into cliches. It's comparing blueberries to pineapples.

I agree with the rest, though. In fact, there's a handy Combat Guide linked in the Tutorials section of the ISRP header that goes into more detail for those unsure on how to freeform more reasonably. ... [/shameless plug]

 

[Elf_Ariel]

Over the years, I have seen and tried, on a few occassions, the all encompassing, bat-winged, silk and leather, dark stared attempt of vampirism. It almost universally fails, because well, you can only act evil when no one wants to be the victims. In order to prove the evilness and cunning and outright fear required of a vampire you actually have to have someone -see- you doing the acts which you so controversially ban because they are "suicidal". (Else there are no rumours!) It's quite a conundrum. And when you find victims willing, and players willing to be victimised, often you're dismissed as pathetic.

Talk to Jazzmyn, I'm sure she's having these kindsa problems right now ;-)!

For the record...there is only one player allowed to kill Ariel; and they have owned those rights for years (approx 7 of them). And they are plenty deserving too. But that, is completely, an OOC agreement.

 

[DarkmoorRunebane]

Meh, when has there ever *not* been vampires in the tavern setting?