Too much magic in DnD - lets do something about it !
- Thread starter bramadan
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Bob Aberton
First Post
Skeleton low magic rules...
Revised, low magic rules I use for my Tainted Avalon (homebrew) campaign.
Spellcraft rolls to cast spells.
level DC
0 10
1 11
2 12
3 13
4 21
5 22
6 23
7 24
8 25
9 30
On a failed roll, something bad happens...
1 caster falls comatose
2 1d6 damage/spell level
3 spell fizzles
4 outsider takes notice
5 loss of spellcasting for 1d4 days
6 caster becomes cursed
7 caster goes insane
8 Caster loses 1d2 points in each mental stat
9 spell rebounds on caster
10 spell affects anyone in ten feet (including caster)
...or something like that.
Too much spellcasting causes powerful outsiders to take notice. To counteract this, a protection ritual and special amulet are required. The ritual must be cast every morning. It takes one hour. The amulet requires a week of concentration and 100 XP to make. It requires the appropriate Craft check, whether it is made of wood, stone, or metal.
Definitely use the Witch spell list in the DMG. Its perfect for a low magic world, and it compensates for lack of evocation with some cure spells and clerical spells. Or maybe the Adept spell list, though that doesn't go all the way to 9 level spells.
like I said, skeleton rules.
Revised, low magic rules I use for my Tainted Avalon (homebrew) campaign.
Spellcraft rolls to cast spells.
level DC
0 10
1 11
2 12
3 13
4 21
5 22
6 23
7 24
8 25
9 30
On a failed roll, something bad happens...
1 caster falls comatose
2 1d6 damage/spell level
3 spell fizzles
4 outsider takes notice
5 loss of spellcasting for 1d4 days
6 caster becomes cursed
7 caster goes insane
8 Caster loses 1d2 points in each mental stat
9 spell rebounds on caster
10 spell affects anyone in ten feet (including caster)
...or something like that.
Too much spellcasting causes powerful outsiders to take notice. To counteract this, a protection ritual and special amulet are required. The ritual must be cast every morning. It takes one hour. The amulet requires a week of concentration and 100 XP to make. It requires the appropriate Craft check, whether it is made of wood, stone, or metal.
Definitely use the Witch spell list in the DMG. Its perfect for a low magic world, and it compensates for lack of evocation with some cure spells and clerical spells. Or maybe the Adept spell list, though that doesn't go all the way to 9 level spells.
like I said, skeleton rules.
bramadan said:
I'm saying in effect that you can achieve all it is you want to do by a few simple changes. The most important aspect is probably simply limiting advancement; everything else is gravy. Tweaking the magic rules at high levels is not really worth it.
At high levels, the monsters and CRs are designed with magic in mind. If you change the level of magic, the challenge presented by various monsters will also change: it's possible that some will become less dangerous, but most will become much more dangerous.
Take a CR 9 greater earth elemental, for instance. This isn't such a bad fight for a 9th level party with access to haste, flight, and +2 weapons or better. But if you don't have any of that, and you try to fight it hand-to-hand, consider what it can do: 3 attacks at +23/+18/+13, each doing 2d10+15 damage; 199 hp; DR 10/+2. A 10th level fighter with 100 hp can withstand maybe a couple of rounds of full attacks from this thing. Or a greater fire elemental: slightly less hit points, but much faster, and with a better AC. And try to fight a dragon without magical help.
Bottom line is, you _need_ magic to take on many of the monsters once you get past about 5-7th level or so. You can rejig all the CRs to match a low-magic world, but that's just more work. You might as well use one of the existing d20 rulesets out there that aren't as magic-rich as D&D.
(Even if you were to have a high-level, low-magic campaign, I fail to see how 15th level fighters, say, can be considered anything other than near-demigods. One of the common complaints about high magic is that a wizard can bypass various mundane constraints on his behaviour, whether it's using teleport to bypass locked doors, or dominating peons to serve him, or whatever. A 15th level fighter be almost as game-breaking, by dint of sheer combat prowess. He doesn't like the local baron? He marches into the baron's castle and slaughters everyone there. He can do that.)
Desdichado
Hero
Your experience is vastly different from my own: that's obvious after reading just a few of your posts. But thanks for being the player's advocate for my group: I'm sure they'll all appreciate it.
Desdichado
Hero
Well, thanks for stepping up. I know the primaries were pretty rough, but all the candidates for Player's Advocate for Joshua Dyal's group are looking pretty strong now. We'll have debates scheduled twice before we go to the polls. 
hong said:
No he can't, not with "Grim and Gritty" which is the HP system that should be used in conjuction with the low magic rules. It simulates beautifully the fact that in real life best swordsman in the world will likely be killed if forced to fight multitide of oponents.
As for other d20 systems none of them are satisfactory for the type of game I have in mind, that is why I want to come up with a new one.
bramadan said:
At this point, I have to ask: given how many changes you propose to the rules, is it really worthwhile? To what extent can you be considered to be playing D&D, if you've changed the hit point rules, the magic rules and (no doubt) the monsters as well?
What exactly do you intend to salvage from the basic D&D ruleset? What could you use that doesn't need extensive revision, or doesn't already exist in games like (off the top of my head) Pendragon, GURPS or d20 WoT? How much work are you really saving by using an existing ruleset, if you intend to change most of it?
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