Torg/Master Book RPG system...

[ColonelHardisson]

By infiniverse, are you talking about how each gaming group could report on what their group accomplished, and the setting as a whole could change depending on how many groups accomplished (or didn't accomplish) something? If so, it was an interesting concept.

I get the feeling it would work out much better now, with internet access more widespread. Actually, even those without computer access could be better served now if a central snail-mail location could be given for reports to come in, since database and spreadsheet software is even easier to use now, or at least a lot more people are now using it on a regular basis than in the early 90s.

The whole thing still has a few drawbacks. For example, those who get into the game later on could feel left out if they see the deadline to report on something has long since passed. But something could be worked out to make everyone feel included, I'm sure.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Ah, Torg, my favorite of all the RPGs. I own every book for the game so I hope I can speak with some authority. Here are my many thoughts on things in no exact order...

1. Some friends and I actually did a LOT of work on converting Torg over to D20. When we approaced WEG (or the current owners of the WEG stuff at the time) and made serious inquiries on how much it would be to develop and sell our work we decided that it was WAAAAY too much and our dream died there. It was some good work. Since then someone has supposedly begun work on revamping the whole system (beyond the 1.5 rulebook) but I haven't seen a lot of movement on the front.

2. We also have started several times to come up with a good Torg CCG. Loosely based on Magic (what CCG isn't in some way?) where each "color" was its own cosm. I always wanted to do the Nile Empire cards...those would be the best. Never got off the ground.

3. The most-pressing problem with the Torg system already has a name on the internet. It's called the glass-jaw ninja effect. Basically it says that at some point the mooks (stormtroopers) become so bad compared to the PCs that the only way for them to even HIT the PC is by rolling an insanely high number. This converts to an insanely high damage value. Thus a mook misses you 99 times out of 100, but the one time he does hit you you DIE. There are several rules patches out there for this, but they all monkey around with the simple mechanics that make Torg fun.

4. Many of the rules from the cosm books could be ditched very easily and redone without much effort. The three rules that stand out as REDICULOUSLY COMPLICATED for a simple result are Creating Gizmos (with a design flowchart), aligning planets for a Nile mathmetician (I actually grabbed a spare calendar and wrote out an entire year in advance, but this required me to ask the GM constantly things like "How many days passes since we left London?"), and the crazy chart for designing a new spell in Aysle. If you did away with all these things you wouldn't really lose any flavor and would lose a LOT of rules bloat.

5. The Internet. This is probably the biggest "change" to the Torg world that you would have to write around. Shadowrun has updated how their "hackers" work to take it into account and you would have to as well. In my currently running (but on hold) campaign one fo the players was a cyberdecker. Assuming cyberdeckers can access google while adventuring (and you would have to assume this, since you can do the same with an Iphone) causes adventures to change ALOT. For example, say your players are adventuring in the ruins of High Lord of Earth adventure. During the adventure they run across some writing on a temple in a foreign dead language. The adventure will state "The PCs make a Languages roll of 25 to learn the message says EVIL AWAITS THOSE WITH 4 EYES". This makes the Language skill useful. The cyberdecker, however, can take a picture of the writing on his cyberdeck, upload it to a MAYAN LANGUAGE STUDIES blog with captions "Translate this" and in an hour or two get an answer. Cyberdecking in my game simply because a catch all ability to fill in for any rolls that could be done by having the knowledge in the first place. It actually helped out the adventure because they had a chance of learning things most groups wouldn't, AND I got to print out Wikipedia articles ahead of time and hand them out when they asked things like "What does Wikipedia tell me about Huizipotchli?".

6. World Laws - I think the biggest problem with Torg was the inability to enforce all the world laws all the time. By the book, when in a pure zone you have to spend 1 possibility per 15 minutes to keep your reality. By the book, in the Living Land, all the PCs would have to blow through their entire bank of possiblities in one adventure, because its impossible to be a team on a mission in the Living Land under its own World Law. I like the idea of having the WLs, but a better effort needed to be made to explain when what law took effect. No laws should make the PCs just avoid an area (the mist that makes you lost permanantly).

7. This is rather long so I will sum up with my capsule reviews of the cosms.

Living Land - Suffered from a bad sourcebook, horrible World Laws, and being screwed over as the war progressed (turning into the Land Below). It was a good adventuring area and fairly easy rules-wise if you handwaved the pure-zone shenanigans.

Nile Empire - The best cosm by far (IMHO). Superpowers needed to either be toned back or better implemented. I created Blanka (Ultimate Skill:Melee Combat, Electricity Touch) and he ended up with a Melee Combat of 30something without a LOT of possibilities. Gizmos were fun. Some fiddly bits that could be trimmed out.

Aysle - The wacky homeworld needs to be unwackied. The free magical power needs zapped. The corruption/light needs to be expanded on. The rest is good.

Orrorsh - NEVER EVER create a section of the gameworld that literally says "The players may want to create some secondary characters because a lot of them are supposed to die". Fine otherwise

Cyberpapacy - A little overpowered next to the other cosms (I had Jean-Luc Tralfazz, the heavily armored cyber-cleric renegade who was WAY better than any other PC). Cyberspace portion needs to change ALOT.

Nippon Tech - The weakest by boatloads cosm. It was the world of robots and ninjas that taught me never to trust japanese businessmen on a train or plane. Too hard to have a good adventure in. The NT cosm made good bad guys to attack the PCs in other places, but the adventures IN NT were always lame and always ended in fighting a big robot or ninjas (or both, or possibly robot ninjas).

Space Gods - While the idea of the Nazca lines and spacemen helping to save the planet was a good one, the execution was a mess. Introduced WAY WAY WAY too many needless rules (psionics, living weapons, blah blah) and WAY WAY WAY too many needless intrigues (exactly what aliens dislike what aliens, and why do I care as a nile shocktrooper?). I would have (and have in my games) redone this as human-only aliens discreetly showing up to help the Core Earth nations by offering tech (bio if you like, to make it stand out as "alien" and be used univerally in all cosms) they didn't already have. I make it a more MIB style contact instead of the mess they did.

Tharkold - Mechanically it ruined the game. Why use the Damage 15 pistol anymore after the first time I killed a guy with a Damage 30 one? The number on the Tharkold equipment were so high it FORCED you to use their equipment to kill their bad guys. Storywise I also think it was lame because it cheapened the Russians victory and it made them look a little childish (We hate you Nippon Tech. We are going to show up and just mess you up! But not too close, we are going to be all the way over here in LA and just not expand or anything to do it). In my games Tharkold doesn't invade.

Dinner bell dings....more later.
DS

 

[apieros]

Just some general responses:

This glass-jaw ninja fix is going into Torg 2.0. It's the best so far (IMHO, and not just because it's mine.) Give it a try.

Anyone who wants to "rewrite" Torg really ought to be a participant on the official Torg Boards and the Torg Mailing List . A lot of detailed discussion about Torg has taken place in both places, and the depth of Torg knowledge available there is unsurpassed.

Last, for the "summary of a reality." I developed a format I call a précis, to provide such information. A précis is a concise summary of the essential information about a reality, including Axioms and summaries of World Laws. Here's an example:

Cosm: Dharkuul

Catchphrase: "What ancient was, shall rise again."

Axioms: Magic: 18, Social: 20, Spirit: 1, Tech: 23

World Laws

The Law of Eldritch Unreality: This cosm is divided between Rationality and Unreality. Magic is the force of Unreality, and so works differently here than in other cosms.

The Curse of Irrationality: Irrational events harm the Rational mind and can cause delusions or other ill effects.

The Shield of Sanity: Sanity offers protection from the Irrational World.

Genre: The genre is a cross between Mythos-inspired horror and near-future post-apocalyptic science fiction.

Setting: In the closing years of the 20th century, a small cult managed to breach the barriers between this world and Irrational Space. An alien race, fleeing a nameless horror, invaded Earth. Though defeated, their invasion weakened the walls between Rational and Irrational Space.

Now hideous and insane monstrosities from beyond the bounds of rationality have begun emerging in ever-greater numbers. The only defense against these incursions lies in deciphering and using the Xenotech artifacts left behind by the aliens, though those who delve too deeply risk their own sanity.

Archetypal Characters: Reformed Cultist, Augmented Marine, Cautious Xenopsychologist, Mythos Researcher, Eldritch Sorcerer, Escaped Mental Patient, Xenotechnician, XTIA Agency Operative, Xenoform Bughunter, Complacent Politician, Tabloid Journalist.

Mission Statement: We fight the secret wars against the nameless horrors from beyond rational existence.

Source Material: H.P Lovecraft or August Derleth stories, "Aliens," "Species," "Virus," the "Delta Green" role-playing game.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

Check the .sig.

Currently playing a PbP TORG game via a Wiki. I thought the game was cool, though there are times when I felt that there was an odd emphasis on "realism" in some aspects for a game that wanted a cimetic feel to it.

(Not a fan of the damage system in the game; think newer systems could handle this better now, as well as the resolution mechanic).

KInda wonder how a d20 system (probably adapting d20 Modern) would work for this mega-setting.