Torm vs. Tyr

[Badkarmaboy]

Tyr is a real life god.

Athiests, Christians, and Muslims may disagree with this statement.

Sorry, I couldn't resist

 

[eleran]

Athiests, Christians, and Muslims may disagree with this statement.

Sorry, I couldn't resist

But remember, there are still practicing Odinists somewhere, so the rest of that rabble would be wrong.

 

[ferratus]

But remember, there are still practicing Odinists somewhere, so the rest of that rabble would be wrong.

Yeah, I think you should put replace "still" with "new" if you want to be historically valid.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Yup. And (faiths and avatars) 2ed clerics could cast wolf jaws to turn their arm into a deadly snapping wolfhead. Combined with the fact that they could use longswords and heavy armor and detect lie at will (big module buster) clerics of Tyr were quite powerful. From what I recall, clerics of Torm were just average. In 3.x it didn't matter as much. Tyr was more justice, Torm was more protection.

Actually, Tormite priests were pretty powerful too; one mustn't underestimate the value o double-duration divination and protection spells. (Massive off-topic: I was always amused by how many people missed the fact that FR specialty priests used a different XP table; they would have been somewhat overpowered using the standard cleric progression.)

Another thing to keep in mind is that Torm serves Tyr; as such, he is really a representation of what to some extent is a subset of Tyr's overall justice portfolio, emphasizing duty and loyalty.

 

[The Little Raven]

As somebody who never really used WOTC gods, can you give the rundown of the similarities/differences of Torm and Tyr? What will it mean for the core game world?

Tyr is directly based on the Norse god of the same name. He has all the same basic attributes, including having lost his hand to some immortal canine. He's a perfect example of Ed taking something that already exists, sanding it down a little and dropping it in wholesale.

Torm, on the other hand, is a FR-only god. Known as the Loyal Fury, he's the god of duty, loyalty, obedience, paladins, and truth. He also kicked the crap out of Bane during the Time of Troubles and was restored to life by Ao because he was fulfilling the duty laid out for him. He went from being a demigod before the Troubles to a lesser god afterwards.

What this means for the core? Nada.

What this means for FR? An improvement, in my opinion. I prefer a FR-unique god to ones plucked from other sources.

 

[Umbran]

Sorry, I couldn't resist

You really, really should have resisted.

Everyone else, do resist. This is not a way this thread should go.

 

[MisterWhodat]

I worship Torm for two reasons in the Realms. One, he is the most Baller god in the Realms and Two he makes my dookie twinkle man

 

[tomBitonti]

Why is this 4e???

Ok, I have to ask, why is this change a part of the 4e set of changes? As far as I can tell, this has *nothing* to do with the rules changes. I can invent an argument that says that one shakeup is better than two. But, I can also invent an argument that this is feature creep, and two medium sized shakeups are better than one huge shakeup. What is the mandate for the 4e update? To provide the updates as needed to accommodate the rules changes? Or is there a broader mandate to make other changes as well?

 

[The Little Raven]

Ok, I have to ask, why is this change a part of the 4e set of changes? As far as I can tell, this has *nothing* to do with the rules changes. I can invent an argument that says that one shakeup is better than two. But, I can also invent an argument that this is feature creep, and two medium sized shakeups are better than one huge shakeup. What is the mandate for the 4e update? To provide the updates as needed to accommodate the rules changes? Or is there a broader mandate to make other changes as well?

It's not just about rules changes. The settings will be changing, some simply because of changes to the D&D core (like Eberron, which will remain almost exactly the same, with some minor tweaks because of changes), some because they tend to through in metaplot changes with each new edition (Forgotten Realms).

The Torm/Tyr change seems to be happening because enough FR fans were vocal about wanting that Norse interloper removed and replaced with a FR-only god that people have seen in action for years (Torm).

 

[broghammerj]

It's not just about rules changes. The settings will be changing, some simply because of changes to the D&D core (like Eberron, which will remain almost exactly the same, with some minor tweaks because of changes), some because they tend to through in metaplot changes with each new edition (Forgotten Realms).

I disagree with you assessment of why worlds are changing. The problem is Eberron is relatively new and fan feedback via the internet regarding setting creep is vocal enough to remain the same. Had it been written decades ago, it would have been jacked with a long time ago.

FR on the other hand has precedent, even though it has been poorly received, to change the setting with each new edition.

My gestalt is that Eberron fans have said don't screw up the gameworld like you did with FR.