Torm vs. Tyr

[The Little Raven]

I disagree with you assessment of why worlds are changing.

So, you disagree with the fact that Eberron will only change slightly because of system changes (some elves will stay elves, and others will become eladrin), and you disagree with the fact that FR is changing because it does so with every edition (which, it does, as you pointed out by it's precedent)?

Reading your post, I don't see any real dispute between what I said and what you said. Eberron will remain the same in fluff and lore, but change because of system changes (unavoidable). Forgotten Realms will change because they always do that.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Yes; the designers have definitely indicated that they wanted to make more sweeping changes to the setting, especially as involves the deities and the presence of powerful good NPCs.

I happen to dislike these changes, though I guess YMMV. They have typically been played out first in the FR novels (which I detest), and planned/scripted by people who are certainly not my favorite FR designers (those being Ed Greenwood, Steven Schend, and Eric Boyd). The stuff with the gods is especially distressing because it veers away from one of the design elements I always liked in Ed's writing: Namely, the tendency to play fast and loose with deities, cults, and the like S&S-fashion. The FR adventures and supplements reference a number of weird cults that lack the highly protagonist-style deities of, say, Troy Denning's books.

 

[Abstraction]

My gestalt is that Eberron fans have said don't screw up the gameworld like you did with FR.

Gestalt = an organized whole that is perceived as more than the sum of its parts.

Is that the word you meant? I don't understand.

 

[broghammerj]

Reading your post, I don't see any real dispute between what I said and what you said. Eberron will remain the same in fluff and lore, but change because of system changes (unavoidable). Forgotten Realms will change because they always do that.

Perhaps, I had drawn some inferences that did not exist in your post regarding change (or lack thereof) being implicit to each setting. Hence my use of the term disagreement. I read into your post that FR has a natural progression with each new edition. I think they have changed FR due to historical precedent but was not intrinsically implied with the original setting. Eberron has remained static due to fan outcry not really a planned or implied stasis.

 

[broghammerj]

Gestalt = an organized whole that is perceived as more than the sum of its parts.

Is that the word you meant? I don't understand.

If you take fan opinion of changing gameworlds with new editions, advancing metaplots based on published novels, proliferation of a campaign setting with supplement creep(sum of the parts), it appears the overall thought (organized whole) is the setting should be left relatively alone.

Perhaps I have used the word incorrectly. I am always amazed by my ability to come up with clear and concise thought patterns and utterly fail to convey them via the internet!

 

[med stud]

Yup. And (faiths and avatars) 2ed clerics could cast wolf jaws to turn their arm into a deadly snapping wolfhead. Combined with the fact that they could use longswords and heavy armor and detect lie at will (big module buster) clerics of Tyr were quite powerful. From what I recall, clerics of Torm were just average. In 3.x it didn't matter as much. Tyr was more justice, Torm was more protection.

That's the reason why I don't want gods from the real world in D&D; they mangle them completely (Tyr with a wolf hand?!?).

 

[Mistwell]

The most significant thing from this news is that a fan emailed them, they listed to his arguments, and changed the game a as a result of that email.

 

[Lord Fyre]

I shed a Tyr when I heard about this descision.

 

[The Little Raven]

I shed a Tyr when I heard about this descision.

...

...

A pun calls for only one response: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/04/10

Don't say another goddamn word. Up until now, I've been polite. If you say anything else - word one - I will kill myself. And when my tainted spirit finds its destination, I will topple the master of that dark place. From my black throne, I will lash together a machine of bone and blood, and fueled by my hatred for you this fear engine will bore a hole between this world and that one.

When it begins, you will hear the sound of children screaming - as though from a great distance. A smoking orb of nothing will grow above your bed, and from it will emerge a thousand starving crows. As I slip through the widening maw in my new form, you will catch only a glimpse of my radiant form before you are incinerated. Then, as tears of bubbling pitch steam down my face, my dark work will begin.

I will open one of my six mouths, and I will sing the song that ends the Earth.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I intensely dislike how it seems like a lot of 4E decisions are simply being based on nothing more than, "Huh? Yeah, that's a great idea. Let's implement it!"

Barely any thought put into it beyond an interesting concept. :\