Torrent throwdown on the Wizards board

[malraux]

What would happen if the powers that be decided that scanning, copying and distributing stuff entirely for free was just fine and legal?

Walmart (or other gigantic business) would crush all smaller companies under it. Now if non-commercial copying were legal.... I doubt we'd have much of a difference between that hypothetical and now.

 

[The Little Raven]

Rebellion was against the law when the US broke from the UK. Anyone involved in the underground railroad helping free slaves was breaking the law also. While clearly this incident different. Just because its "against the law" in no way shape or form makes it unethical.

Rebellion because of the suppression of fundamental legal rights and illegally copying and distributing someone else's property are not in the same ballpark. Hell, it's not even the same sport.

One is about the restoration of that which the law guarantees you, while the other is about acquiring a product through illicit means. One is a violation of the law in order to fix a deteriorating social order, while the other is about selfishness, pure and simple.

 

[Cirex]

I don't know how it works in Spain, but under U.S. law, when you buy a car (or a CD, or a book), you own the physical product. However, you do not own is the text of the book, or the song itself. Those remain the property of the artist, author, company, or whoever holds the copyright.

What you pay for is the right to use that product, in the form of a physical item. That has been legally construed to include the right to reproduce the product for your own use.



Like I said, I don't know how it works in Spain, but what you are doing violates copyright law in the United States, where WotC is based. "Economic harm" is not a relevant criteria in assess the violation of copyright law. WotC owns the work. You do not. Nor does someone who bought the book. As such, owning the book (or pdf) confers no right to distribute the product to others. With ONE exception. You may choose to distribute the physical product to others, by sale or gift, but only once. And you may not (legally) keep a download or scan if you do so. That is, unless you have paid WotC, or one of its authorized resellers, for said download or scan.

That's the law. You may quibble with it. But that's U.S. copyright law.

To be fair, the United States has stricter rules on intellectual property than many other countries. Preserving ownership over what you create is intended to encourage innovation and creativity. I take it you believe this is a bad thing?

I am a Spanish citizen, so what I do from Spain is under Spanish laws.

I know USA has stricter rules and it is NOT encouraging innovation and creativity. Copyright was born to encourage the spreading and expanding of culture. Ironic, isn't it?

A faster and smoother expansion of culture encourages innovation and creativity. Think about how many little movie directors, music bands, unknown writers, etc. made it to the public thanks to the free expansion of culture. A few of those who discovered those little authors will have enough inspiration to create its own art, to share it with the other people, in short, to expand the culture.

How many musicians would exist if people would be allowed to just have one music CD at house?


Family, you posted the same thing yesterday. The line "People’s jobs are on the line" makes me chuckle when I see it.
Once again, no effect on sales.

If a company closes down, it's because they had a quality/marketing issue, not due downloading.

 

[Rykion]

For the first part, show me the exact quote that says "I don't pay for stuff because it should be free".

For the second, prove that 5%.
Now, for the other 95%, the bands get to be more known, so, in fact, they get to sell more merchandising and concert tickets.
A quick fact -> Music CD sells decreased 0.7% last year in Spain (by any factor, actually) while concerts increased up to 45%.

The first part comes from my response to Novem5er who said that all knowledge should be free.

Where is your proof for less than 5%? A Harvard study on something that would be impossible to get exacts on isn't really proof of anything. How do you know that CD sales in Spain wouldn't have increased by 10% last year without internet pirates?

 

[warlockwannabe]

I am a Spanish citizen, so what I do from Spain is under Spanish laws.

I know USA has stricter rules and it is NOT encouraging innovation and creativity. Copyright was born to encourage the spreading and expanding of culture. Ironic, isn't it?

A faster and smoother expansion of culture encourages innovation and creativity. Think about how many little movie directors, music bands, unknown writers, etc. made it to the public thanks to the free expansion of culture. A few of those who discovered those little authors will have enough inspiration to create its own art, to share it with the other people, in short, to expand the culture.

You know, I dont recall ever reading anything from spain. Or buying any products from there. Or music....
Or anything really. Britain yes, Germany, even belgium. But not spain... Odd really. What is spain known for? Seriously this isnt a snyde remark, but what do you really export to the US?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Did they ever put out legal pdfs in the first place?

Yes, quite a few of them. Check RPGNow.com and other vendors.

 

[TheWyrd]

I'm a PDF addict. I have my entire collection of M&M on PDF on my hard drive. All purchased quite legally I might add. WotC would get lots of my money if they put out D&D 4e the same way.

 

[Argyuile]

The only time revolution becomes legal is if you win. There is never any ethicality to stealing.

Warlock you talk in a lot of absolutes. If I needed to steal to survive (clearly not the case here but to your point) I would certainly do so and I wouldn't feel bad about it at all. If I "stole" slaves from someone who legally owned them (in order to free them) are you saying that the slave owner has the moral high ground above me, the thief?

 

[Korgoth]

Rebellion was against the law when the US broke from the UK. Anyone involved in the underground railroad helping free slaves was breaking the law also. While clearly this incident different. Just because its "against the law" in no way shape or form makes it unethical.

While the ends don't always justify the means it often does as in my slavery example.

Law does not equal morality or ethics and both morality and ethics are subjective.

Wait, so people who steal the D&D books are some combination of George Washington and Harriet Tubman?

It was morally right to support the underground railroad because slavery was an unjust law. Anti-piracy laws are not unjust. Being a buzzkill is not unjust.

Maybe I decide that I should be allowed to steal cars from a car dealership and take them around on joyrides. Maybe I even decide to leave money for gas and mileage at the dealership when I'm done. It's still Grand Theft Auto because I took their property against their will and because that's what the law says it is.

Also, morality and ethics are not subjective. If someone walks up and kicks you in the groin, you're outraged because although you were innocent of any wrongdoing someone inflicted physical pain and harm upon you. He didn't subjectively wrong you, he objectively wronged you. If someone murders six million Jews he isn't subjectively a monster, he's objectively a monster because everyone who doesn't possess mental illness is able to understand that genocide is wrong (those who do it may not admit that it's wrong, but of course they know it).

 

[Rykion]

I AM a teacher. I get paid to spread knowledge. The knowledge I spread is paid for by the general public, not the recipients of the knowledge. The public has chosen to pay taxes to support the spread of knowledge, not the knowledge itself.

How would you feel if you found out somebody recorded all your classes without your permission and put them on the internet? What if the school district decided to fire you and just played those videos to the next year's students? You are being paid for your knowledge, and you are not distributing it for free.

Edit: And the public is paying for the knowledge itself. If you aren't teaching the specific information for a child in the correct grade, you probably won't be a teacher for long.