Touch Attacks & Str Damage

[Markn]

Do melee touch attacks (with spells) deal str damage in addition? I presume they use a str bonus on top of the BAB bonus to calculate the 'to hit'....

If they do, it seems kind of wierd. If they don't and you roll high enough to get through armor, shouldn't it be added?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Do melee touch attacks (with spells) deal str damage in addition? I presume they use a str bonus on top of the BAB bonus to calculate the 'to hit'....

No, they don't do additional strength damage.

However, you can deliver a touch spell with an unarmed attack rather than just a touch attack, in which case you do get to do Strength damage.

 

[Markn]

No, they don't do additional strength damage.

However, you can deliver a touch spell with an unarmed attack rather than just a touch attack, in which case you do get to do Strength damage.

Can you elaborate on the unarmed attack? I vaguely remember something about that. How is that different? Do you then provoke? Do you have to state it before the attack (I presume so)? Etc, Etc,

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Can you elaborate on the unarmed attack? I vaguely remember something about that. How is that different? Do you then provoke? Do you have to state it before the attack (I presume so)? Etc, Etc,

Sure!

Normally, when you attempt to deliver a touch spell, you make a melee touch attack and are considered armed. If you beat your target's touch AC, you deliver the spell. You can threaten a critical hit on a 20, and do x2 spell damage (if appropriate) on a confirmed critical.

Alternatively, you can deliver the touch spell as part of an unarmed strike. This is a normal unarmed attack, and you must beat your target's full AC. If successful, you deal unarmed strike damage as well as deliver the spell. A critical hit, however, only applies to the unarmed strike damage.

If you're going to use the unarmed strike option, you provoke an AoO unless you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. You must decide how you are delivering the spell before you try to deliver it.

Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. (If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack.) If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

 

[Markn]

Sure!

Normally, when you attempt to deliver a touch spell, you make a melee touch attack and are considered armed. If you beat your target's touch AC, you deliver the spell. You can threaten a critical hit on a 20, and do x2 spell damage (if appropriate) on a confirmed critical.

Alternatively, you can deliver the touch spell as part of an unarmed strike. This is a normal unarmed attack, and you must beat your target's full AC. If successful, you deal unarmed strike damage as well as deliver the spell. A critical hit, however, only applies to the unarmed strike damage.

If you're going to use the unarmed strike option, you provoke an AoO unless you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. You must decide how you are delivering the spell before you try to deliver it.

Thanks, now my only question is why would you want to risk the unarmed attack? A crit on your unarmed strike is less effective than a crit on a spell, the to hit is much easier on a touch attack so why would you want to use the latter?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Thanks, now my only question is why would you want to risk the unarmed attack? A crit on your unarmed strike is less effective than a crit on a spell, the to hit is much easier on a touch attack so why would you want to use the latter?

Because maybe you're a monk / wizard?

 

[sfedi]

Or a rogue/wizard sneak attacking.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Or a rogue/wizard sneak attacking.

Which you can do with any touch spell that deals damage, anyway, though not with a touch spell that doesn't deal damage.

Good point.

 

[Markn]

Which you can do with any touch spell that deals damage, anyway, though not with a touch spell that doesn't deal damage.

Good point.

That's about the only time I think I could see it. Would you then get all your attacks instead of just the touch attack? And the last question...on a normal touch attack do you still add any str bonus to the 'to hit' roll.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Most melee touch attack spells (as opposed to ranged touch attack spells) "hold a charge" until delivered or its duration expires, so I don't see any reason why a spellcaster with Improved unarmed attack feat wouldn't get his full melee attacks, with the spell either being delivered with the first successful hit or only deliverable with the primary unarmed attack.

In other words, if the spellcaster has 3 kung-fu attacks, either the spell is delivered with the 1st actual hit, or if you want to be tough, only 1 fist or foot is charged by the spell, so only that appendage can deliver the spell.