Touch of Idiocy - 3 dice or 1?

[Jhyrryl]

When this spell is successfully against a target, does the caster roll a seperate d6 for each ability, or just a single d6 that is applied to all 3 ability scores?

Also, does the penalty actually result in a loss of memorized spells, or simply the ability to cast those spells?

What about extra spells gained for a high score? Should the target loose (or loose access to) a random spell if touch of idiocy causes a score to drop sufficiently?

 

[Majere]

". Your successful melee touch attack applies a 1d6 penalty to the target’s Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores."

Seems to imply you roll 1D6 and apply the damage to all three stats, otherwise I might have expected wording such as

"1d6 penalty to Intelligence, 1d6 penalty to wisdom and a 1d8 penalty to charisma."

Bonus spells/day would definately be lost (In a similar way to losing spells in spell slots lost to level drain). Further :
"To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the wizard must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a wizard’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the wizard’s Intelligence modifier."
I would highlight the word learn. Maybe Im mean but I would rule that if your stat drops to the point you cant learn that spell you lose it. In effect you no longer comprehend the magic and it slips from your mind. I would only apply this to prepared spells, ie cleric,druid,sorcerer,paladin,ranger. In effect I would rule that on restoration of the stats you get back slots but they are "empty", prepared spells are lost, but the slot is still there for spontaineous casters.As some sort of justification I vaguely remeber a reference to preparing spells actually being the process of casting maybe 70-90% of a spell and leaving just that last few mostions unfinished, with a reduced stat you lose the ability to retain these quasi spells.

The spell isnt clear but I would treat the stat loss like a level drain, and work out lost spells accordingly (ie random loss of spells from slots lost). But Im mean and I like the idea of inflicting 2/3 of thse on a cast to drop their tops spells and DCs To be fair 1 touch of idiocy (unless you roll a 5or a 6) is unlikely to do much, most casters by 3rd/4th started with 18 or 20 in int (maybe 22 with SCP) and maybe have that up to a 20-22 with an item. Unless you use the spell repeatedly it will have limited effect.

 

[Darklone]

Bonus spells are not lost. Neither any other prepared spells. The spellcaster is just not able to cast spells anymore if his main casting attribute isn't high enough anymore.

 

[Piratecat]

Darklone is correct. It isn't ability damage, and thus bonus spells aren't lost. It's really effective against very high-level spellcasters, though, if you can take away their 8th and 9th lvl spells.

 

[Jhyrryl]

Okay, so I'll agree with simply losing access to spells of a level that your character no longer qualify to have access to, and also losing access to random spells for which you no longer qualify to gain bonus spells.

That being the case, meta-magicked spells (other than heightened spells) in higher-level slots are still available for casting, assuming the base spell would still be available, right? For example, a 5th-level slot storing a quickened ray of enfeeblement will still be castable by a wizard whose Intelligence drops to 14.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Okay, so I'll agree with simply losing access to spells of a level that your character no longer qualify to have access to, and also losing access to random spells for which you no longer qualify to gain bonus spells.

That being the case, meta-magicked spells (other than heightened spells) in higher-level slots are still available for casting, assuming the base spell would still be available, right? For example, a 5th-level slot storing a quickened ray of enfeeblement will still be castable by a wizard whose Intelligence drops to 14.

No, because a caster without 5th level slots cannot cast a quickened ray of enfeeblement.

 

[Jhyrryl]

No, because a caster without 5th level slots cannot cast a quickened ray of enfeeblement.

I'm pretty sure that reducing a caster's primary attribute does not take away actual slots, which are strictly a function of the caster's level; it only takes away the ability to cast spells of that level. So a 17th-level Wizard who only has an Int of 18 gains a 9th-level slot, he simply can't learn a 9th-level spell to put in the slot. He can however, use the slot to hold a lower-level spell.

The question then is, does applying a metamagic feat to a spell increase the level of the spell for purposes of being usable, or is it still considered to be its original level, the same way that it's still lower-level for purposes of determining DCs, penetrating globes of invulnerability, etc.? My thinking is that, other than a heightened spell, which actually increases the spell's level, applying metamagic doesn't make the spell any more difficult to cast in this context, it just requires more energy, as defined by a needing a higher level slot.

I think I'm convincing myself.

 

[Sanackranib]

the metamagiced versions of the spells would be unaccessable if the slot required by the ie: hightened spell became unavailable.

 

[Silverglass]

There are 2 separate aspects to attribute loss for spellcasters.

Bonus spells are a function of the attribute so these would be lost if the attribute drops. Spells per level are purely a function of the characters level so the slots are not lost, what is lost is that ability to prepare and cast spells of that level. However the caster could still prepare lower level spells using those slots (the 3.0 PHB was pretty clear on this, but without the 3.5 PHB to check up on I cant say whether this is still the case).

As far as metamagics go, other than Heighten the level of the spell is not changed so my interpretation is that a caster could use higher level slots to prepare spells using metamagics other than Heighten (again I cannot quote the 3.5 rules on this but I beleive this is the case).

So a 10th level wizard whose INT was dropped to 13 would lose any 4th or 5th level bonus spells but could use his 4th and 5th level slots per day to prepare spells up to 3rd, including such things as an extended Haste.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I've never thought of that, and its not a really intuative direction for me. The whole its a X level spell, unless its a special case thing wasn't a very thought out rule for metamagic because special cases pop up in random places. I'd have to think about it if a player brought up that argument. It seems more like a strange loophole than something the designers were going for.