Touch of Idiocy in action

[MeepoTheMighty]

Not many fighters will have an int much higher than 13. Touch of Idiocy can shut down lots of feats and depending on your interpretation could potentially even shut down abilities from PrCs that have those feats as prerequisites..

Hmm...Touch of Idiocy as an anti-trip monkey tactic? Interesting.

 

[AuraSeer]

Yep, the loss of some high level spells can hurt, too.

But does it actually remove those spells (since it only is a penalty to the ability and not actual damage/drain)?

Yes. In order to cast any spell, your casting attribute must be at least 10 + spell level. If the current value of the attribute drops below that minimum for any reason-- be it ability damage, penalty, curse, whatever-- you lose access to spells of that level.

Note that a Wiz17 probably has an Intelligence of at least 26, counting items, so you'll need to Empower touch of idiocy if you want to prevent his 9th-level spells.

 

[Thanee]

I didn't mean that... I meant loss of prepared spells/spell slots from ability damage/drain (the bonus spells, that are gone).

Does that happen? Does it happen with the penalty as well?
Or is this actually only applicable with energy drain?

...

On second thought, I guess he meant the same thing you are talking about (losing the prereq to casting the higher levels)... which I don't believe will happen often, tho.

Bye
Thanee

 

[FrankTrollman]

Of course, noone is actually going to be unable to cast their top-end spells after being hit by Touch of Idiocy.

Imagine, if you will, that you started life with a 17 in your spellcasting stat. With Gray Elves or Point Buy it can be higher - but we'll assume 17. Now you are 4th level. Your Spellcasting stat is now an 18 - you lose 6 poins of it and you can still cast 2nd level spells - your highest.

Move on down the line to 6th level. You can afford a Headband of Spellcasting Stat +2 - and would thus be foolish to not have one. Your Spellcasting Stat is 20, so the maximum penalty brings you to 14 - which is enough to cast 4th level spells except that you can't actually cast those because you aren't high enough level.

At first level your spellcasting stat starts out about 6 points higher or more than the minimum needed to cast your highest level spell. Dedicated spellcasters get spellcasting stat at a rate higher than 1 per two levels, so Touch of Idiocy never catches up to the point where it could actually shut down spell levels.

-Frank

 

[AuraSeer]

Many spellcasters do not start with that high a primary stat. I'd go so far as to say most of them don't.

Random generation doesn't guarantee a 17 (because it's random, duh). In a campaign that uses baseline point buy, having a spellcasting stat above 16 is often prohibitively expensive, especially for clerics and other multitaskers. And of course, when using a standard array with max 16, only a special race will have anything higher than that.

Also note that your argument applies mainly to PCs. An NPC starts with lower stats, plus has less wealth to spend on enhancement items, leaving him more vulnerable to "stat nuke" than a PC of equal level.

 

[Thanee]

I think 16 is a reasonable assumption for a base (1st level w/o racial or other adjustments) caster stat.

And Frank, with Empower Spell it might get to the point, that you lose access to your highest spell level, but that's pretty much the only thing that could possibly happen. I also think that a non-empowered Touch of Idiocy will never get a dedicated PC spellcaster down below the requirement for the highest spell levels.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Caliban]

Of course, noone is actually going to be unable to cast their top-end spells after being hit by Touch of Idiocy.

Imagine, if you will, that you started life with a 17 in your spellcasting stat. With Gray Elves or Point Buy it can be higher - but we'll assume 17. Now you are 4th level. Your Spellcasting stat is now an 18 - you lose 6 poins of it and you can still cast 2nd level spells - your highest.

Move on down the line to 6th level. You can afford a Headband of Spellcasting Stat +2 - and would thus be foolish to not have one. Your Spellcasting Stat is 20, so the maximum penalty brings you to 14 - which is enough to cast 4th level spells except that you can't actually cast those because you aren't high enough level.

At first level your spellcasting stat starts out about 6 points higher or more than the minimum needed to cast your highest level spell. Dedicated spellcasters get spellcasting stat at a rate higher than 1 per two levels, so Touch of Idiocy never catches up to the point where it could actually shut down spell levels.

-Frank

Now lets try something even more realistic, where you start of with a 16 spellcasting stat, and can't find/afford a stat boosting item until 8th level or so.

So at 4th level your Int is a 17, and a 6 point penalty drops you to an 11. You just lost your 2nd level spells.

At 8th level you have an 18 in your stat, and cast 4th level spells. Taking 6 points will drop you to 12, cutting off your 3rd and 4th level spells.

If you are fortunate enough to have a +2 stat boosting item, then you would still have a 14 and would only lose your bonus spell slots. But in the campaigns I've played in you can easily reach 10th level with only a few people having stat boosing items.

Of course, this all depends on the opponent rolling maximum on the ability penalty for your stat, or using an empowered version of the spell.

 

[Oni]

Just curious, for my own edification, where it says penalties don't stack.


Intuitively I'd think they'd follow the same rules a bonues, i.e. same name sort of thing, but I can't find anything in the SRD regarding penalties at all. (This may just be me experiencing refridgerator blindness, of course.)

 

[Caliban]

Just curious, for my own edification, where it says penalties don't stack.


Intuitively I'd think they'd follow the same rules a bonues, i.e. same name sort of thing, but I can't find anything in the SRD regarding penalties at all. (This may just be me experiencing refridgerator blindness, of course.)

It's in the PHB glossary. Generally they do stack, unless they are from the same source. Penalties from two castings of Touch of Idiocy wouldn't stack, they are from the same source. This also falls under the rules for combining magical effects on page 171-172 of the PHB.

 

[Oni]

It's in the PHB glossary. Generally they do stack, unless they are from the same source. Penalties from two castings of Touch of Idiocy wouldn't stack, they are from the same source. This also falls under the rules for combining magical effects on page 171-172 of the PHB.

Ah. Thankyou.