Touch Spells and Movement

[Zathraas]

I seem to recall having seen a description of casting a touch attack spell such as Ghoul Touch, being able to take a move action, and then make the touch attack. Anyone know if this is correct? The concept kind of breaks the idea of what can be done in a round since the character would be taking 3 standard actions in a round - cast, move, single attack.

Should be touch attacks just be swift actions to cast to alleviate this question?

 

[dcollins]

Your recollection is correct, it's a core element of how touch spells work. From the SRD CombatI under "Cast a Spell":

Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject, either in the same round or any time later. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) the target. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.

Basically the "attack" is itself part of the casting of the touch spell... but you can break it up around a move action if so desired.

 

[Zathraas]

Thanks for the info. It seems to me that the rule is a little clunky since a character can cast a spell, move up to his normal move and then make an attack.

Normally, the caster could choose to use an unarmed attack in place of the touch attack, but could he do this if he cast and then moved more than 5'?

If touch attack spells were considered "swift actions" then it seems the rules would be more streamlined. The spell would charge the person's hand without taking much time at all (still provoking AoOpp as normal for casting) and wouldn't be creating a special rule that allows standard action Cast, standard action Move and standard action Attack all in one round.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Normally, the caster could choose to use an unarmed attack in place of the touch attack, but could he do this if he cast and then moved more than 5'?

No. If you want to make an unarmed attack, then you must used the attack action, a standard action. Note that the distance moved in this case is, generally, immaterial.

Note that the rules for applying the spell as part of a standard attack are under the "Holding the Charge" section of the rules.

 

[kenobi65]

Thanks for the info. It seems to me that the rule is a little clunky since a character can cast a spell, move up to his normal move and then make an attack.

Yes and no. The ability to cast a spell *and* make a touch attack in the same round only holds true in the round in which the caster actually casts the spell. Think of that touch attack as the very end of the somatic component for the spell, if it makes you feel any better.

If the caster decides to "hold the charge" and make his touch attack in a following round, the touch attack is a standard action, and he can't take another standard action in that round.

If you changed that touch spell to a "swift action", you'd be opening the door for all sorts of monkey business, because now you're effectively allowing the casting of two spells in a round. Haste got nerfed in 3.5 because of this very issue (among others).

 

[Quasqueton]

This rule is the biggest pet peeve I have with D&D3. (Fortunately, this is a very small rule.)

If casting, moving, and touching are allowed in one round, why not...

Cast scorching ray, move, fire ray.

Cast lightning bolt, move, fire bolt.

Pull out a tanglefoot bag, move, throw bag.

Pull out vial of holy water, move, throw vial.


All of the above require a (range) touch attack or less for the last act.

And like someone mentioned above, if the touch is so simple as to not even be considered an act when seperated from the casting by a move, why can't you touch (with spell from previous round), move, and then cast?

This rule just makes my skin crawl, like hearing fingernails on a chalkboard.

Why was this exception to the core rule of standard & move action made?

Quasqueton

 

[DreamChaser]

Because if they didn't, there would be no point in using touch attack spells. They would effectively become full round cast spells because a wizard/sorcerer is going to stand back, cast the spell, move up, touch because they cannot survive any other way. If they couldn't do that sequence, then they would have to cast the spell, move up with a held charge (end turn), touch attack. move away.

DC

 

[kenobi65]

Because if they didn't, there would be no point in using touch attack spells. They would effectively become full round cast spells because a wizard/sorcerer is going to stand back, cast the spell, move up, touch because they cannot survive any other way. If they couldn't do that sequence, then they would have to cast the spell, move up with a held charge (end turn), touch attack. move away.

Yup, and without the "free" touch attack, all touch spells become two-round projects, minimum (cast in round 1, touch in round 2), and thus become far less useful.

 

[bfallin]

so wizard gets to cast move touch fighters can swing 4 times if BAB high enough move 5 cleave few times with right feats. They also can if hasted take xtra attack but caster cant cast xtra spell with it etc. Not big deal in grand scheme of things.

 

[Pickaxe]

Yup, and without the "free" touch attack, all touch spells become two-round projects, minimum (cast in round 1, touch in round 2), and thus become far less useful.

That explains why touching is part of the casting, but I never realized that you could cast, move, and touch in the same round. I'd assumed (partly because it's never come up in our campaigns) that, in order to cast and touch in the same round, you'd move up to melee range, cast (possibly provoking AoO), then execute the spell (cast and touch) as your standard action, but clearly the rule says otherwise. Presumably this is also to make touch spells more attractive: no provoking AoO. Since the touch is part of the casting, is it possible that it would still provoke an AoO?

--Axe