Tower Shield

[Mistwell]

I don't get it. If a character casts Wall of Stone, there is no question that it is in a specific place blocking a specific portion of the battlefield.

If a character is walking around with, say, a big portable wooden wall, and he drops the wall down, there is no question that it is in a specific place blocking a specific portion of the battlefield.

But when a character walks around with a wall-shield strapped to him, and he sets it in place and ducks behind it, suddenly people's brains can't handle that, and think it means you now have facing rules in D&D and it's all or nothing and everything is going to hell.

Guys, why is this such a big deal? The shield provides the cover. It's not YOU who is facing a particular direction, it's the shield. If it were an actual wall or a portable wall, you wouldn't be acting like it was a big deal. So why does the fact that the wall in question has a little strappy thing on the back and your arm is through that loop make it a big deal?

 

[Li Shenron]

Grapple and Snatch Attacks: Total cover from a tower shield blocks such attacks (the foe just can’t get hold of you). The foe could, however grab the shield. Conduct such attacks just like any other grapple or snatch attack. Your foe can’t damage you unless he pins you first. You can escape the foe’s hold simply by dropping the shield (a standard action since it’s strapped to your arm), so long as the foe has not pinned you.

I really don't like this part of the FAQ.

If the monster is not much larger than you (for ex. one category), it makes sense that a tower shield would prevent it to grapple you, because normally its grapple is with its entire body, like wrestling.

But the grapple rules also cover very much larger monsters (like a dragon or giant octopus vs a human) grappling you with just one hand or tentacle, and I don't think in that case the shield should prevent it.

It would have been better for instance to rule that the Tower Shield gave you a bonus to resist being grappled, for ex. treating you like you were one category larger for purposes of avoiding being grappled. For a very large creature grappling a human with tower shield shouldn't be more difficult than grappling an ogre...

 

[The Edge]

I don't get it. If a character casts Wall of Stone, there is no question that it is in a specific place blocking a specific portion of the battlefield.

If a character is walking around with, say, a big portable wooden wall, and he drops the wall down, there is no question that it is in a specific place blocking a specific portion of the battlefield.

But when a character walks around with a wall-shield strapped to him, and he sets it in place and ducks behind it, suddenly people's brains can't handle that, and think it means you now have facing rules in D&D and it's all or nothing and everything is going to hell.

Guys, why is this such a big deal? The shield provides the cover. It's not YOU who is facing a particular direction, it's the shield. If it were an actual wall or a portable wall, you wouldn't be acting like it was a big deal. So why does the fact that the wall in question has a little strappy thing on the back and your arm is through that loop make it a big deal?

Well said. Its simple enough really. Its almost the same as carrieing a table around and proping it up, just more convienient. If a player declares they kick over a table for cover, do you count them as haveing cover on all sides? Its all common sense.

As the graple rules, I agree with Li Shenron. A collosal dragon wouldn't find it any harder to scoop up that little guy with his board, and a large tentacle would have no disadventage in grap it either. But this is what DMs are meant to do, when your cheeky halfling PC with his tower shield claims the trarasque can't touch him; tough, you both know thats nonsence.

 

[Li Shenron]

But this is what DMs are meant to do, when your cheeky halfling PC with his tower shield claims the trarasque can't touch him; tough, you both know thats nonsence.

Which just reminds me that there is still a Balor somewhere trying to whipping a bound commoner with its magic flaming whip, but failing to scratch her because she is wearing a padded bra

 

[shilsen]

Which just reminds me that there is still a Balor somewhere trying to whipping a bound commoner with its magic flaming whip, but failing to scratch her because she is wearing a padded bra

 

[KarinsDad]

I really don't like this part of the FAQ.

If the monster is not much larger than you (for ex. one category), it makes sense that a tower shield would prevent it to grapple you, because normally its grapple is with its entire body, like wrestling.

But the grapple rules also cover very much larger monsters (like a dragon or giant octopus vs a human) grappling you with just one hand or tentacle, and I don't think in that case the shield should prevent it.

Think of it this way, a larger creature can attack you from above. You would get the +4 Cover Bonus because the creature is in front of you, but he is not going "through" the grid line in front of you, he is going past the "grid line" of a 3 dimensional cubic grid above you.

DND doesn't have many rules about 3 dimensional attacks, but you can just extrapolate any of the two dimensional grid rules to three dimensional cubic rules.


For example, in our last game, the PCs were attacked by Trolls. So although 2 of the PCs were close to the Trolls, the PC Wizard thought it was more important to attack 5 Trolls with a Fireball than it was to worry about 2 PCs getting hit by them. However, some of the Trolls were on a ledge 15 feet above the floor. So, the Wizard targeted the spell above the ledge.

I did not rule that the Fireball was a cylinder of Fire that went all of the way to the ground. I ruled it as a sphere which although one of the PCs was just within the radius from a top down view, he was outside the edge from a "side view". Take the grid and turn it 90 degrees up and down.

   xx
 xxxxxx
 xxxxxx
xxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxx
 xxxxxx
 xxxxxxp
gggggggg

Where x is the radius of the spell and p is the PC and g is the ground (in this case, it was only 15 feet above the ground).

Normally when you cast a Fireball at opponents, it is at "opponent level" where you only get the top half of the hemisphere and hence, any creature within the "radius" gets hit. But, a creature at the edge only has to be levitating or flying 5 feet up to get missed:

   xx
 xxxxxx
 xxxxxxy
xxxxxxxx
gggggggg

 

[KarinsDad]

And that's why the FAQ is so loathed by many people. The FAQ changes the rules in the book by adding facing to 3.5, which was purposely removed. Only the Errata can change the rules, not a FAQ, hence all of that verbiage is meaningless.

It doesn't add facing to the rules.

It discusses cover direction which is already part of the rules.

Characters do not have facings. But, attacks still come from specific directions.

Hence, the verbage is not as meaningless as you claim because it does not add any rules. It merely clarifies them.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Originally Posted by Li Shenron
Which just reminds me that there is still a Balor somewhere trying to whipping a bound commoner with its magic flaming whip, but failing to scratch her because she is wearing a padded bra

No! No! No!

The flaming damage is magical, thus seperate from the whip dama...

Oh, wait...my faulty editing missed the smiley face.

Nevermind.

 

[dcollins]

Have to point out there's another error in this FAQ entry.

FAQ says this:

Spread effects reach around the shield if they normally would extend into your space, but you still get a Reflex save bonus for cover when they do.

3.5 SRD says this:

Cover and Reflex Saves: Cover grants you a +2 bonus on Reflex saves against attacks that originate or burst out from a point on the other side of the cover from you. Note that spread effects can extend around corners and thus negate this cover bonus.

Although the 3.0 SRD said something different, so the FAQ detail could have been right in that context.

 

[RonYon]

There is a heap of clarification about the Tower Shield in the FAQ (Oct 27th, 2005):

Thanks, I needed this info, badly, and could not acess the FAQ.
Now, I want to use this with the Hide Sheild from Sandstorm(?).
They are lighter , and only cause -1 to attacks.
I want to know how it would affect someone in the same space as the weilder, say a rider and mount?
Could one weild a tower/hide shield that is sized for a larger being, if one used both hands?
Two sheilds would almost make a clam shell, 4 would almost make a drum. Other than directing an on going spell, does anyone have ideas of what to do with this?
I want to use it with mounted characters, letting the mount do the dirty work, especialy if the cover could some how aplie to the mount.
Otherwise, I would like to use it with a tiny humeoid undead, riding my cleric.
In one hand they would have the Hide Sheild, taking full cover.
Even with out Ride skill, they should be able to claim some cover by being behind me, as well.
In the other, they would have a Riders Sheild(races of stone), granting me the +2 AC from it.
Each would look like a giant wing, for styles sake.
I would love to upsize the Hide Sheild, so I could use it myself upon occasion, but the rules one up sizing non weapon sheilds dont seem to exist.