Tower Shields and Lightning Bolts

[reveal]

From the Main D&D FAQ, in the section dealing with total cover from Tower Shields and what it affects:

Magical attacks that fill areas (bursts, cones, cylinders, lines, emanations, and spreads) are subject to all the rules for cover on page 151 of the Player’s Handbook. Such attacks are completely blocked if line of effect between you and the attack’s point of origin passes through the side of your space the shield blocks.

Emphasis added because Lightning Bolt's area is a 120-foot line. So the shield would block all damage from the Lightning Bolt. The shield would take the damage and, as has been mentioned earlier, if the shield breaks, the Lightning Bolt would hit the person behind the shield, per the spell description.

If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the bolt may continue beyond the barrier if the spell’s range permits; otherwise, it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.

 

[Infiniti2000]

From the Main D&D FAQ, in the section dealing with total cover from Tower Shields and what it affects

Note that that quote from the FAQ is utter crap. Just read the description on cover: "Note that spread effects can extend around corners and thus negate this cover bonus." And spread effects: "A spread spell spreads out like a burst but can turn corners."

Nothing directly says that lines are bursts. Only an example in the PH but not in the SRD alludes to such. So, in D&D you could argue it's a burst. In d20, you can't.

 

[mvincent]

Nothing directly says that lines are bursts.

Indeed, lines work similarly to bursts, but they are not bursts. I'm unclear why it matters (I might've missed something)?

"A line-shaped spell shoots away from you in a line in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and extends to the limit of its range or until it strikes a barrier that blocks line of effect. A line-shaped spell affects all creatures in squares that the line passes through."

It's the last line that, to me, shows that the spell affects even people with cover, because they do not have cover with respect to everything that occurs in that square.

If a lightning bolt is stopped* in your square, then it does not pass through your square, making the last line inapplicable.


*by your tower shield, because it is a barrier that blocks line of effect when you are taking full cover from it

 

[PrinceZane]

Yeah, I have to go with the "popular" (?) belief of the bolt hits the shield like a barrier, dealing appropriate damage, and if the damange supercedes that of the shield then it's shattered and the remaining damage to the player (or whatever else cover it may/may not have - 2 weap fighting w/ tower shields! totally total covered!)

 

[The_Fan]

Actually, it is up to the GM. I usually treat lightning bolts that hit water like a fireball. i.e. radius explosion damage. And fireballs don't do any damage to people who are under water when I'm GMing.

There are rules for what fireballs do underwater. You have to make a spellcraft roll = 20+spell level, or the spell is lost. If it works, then it produces a burst of steam instead.

 

[Tatsukun]

I agree that if the shield is being used as cover, it's an object blocking the line of the spell. It should take the damage instead of the user.

A tower shield has hardness 5, 20 Hp. Mithril makes it hardness 15, I'm not sure how many HP.

Let's just call it Hardness 15, 20Hp

The bolt does, at most 10D6, or on average 35Hp. Halve that because it's electric, you get something like 18 damage, or a max of 30.

In other words, it can't destroy the shield, ever.

So I guess it stops the bolt, if you want to count the damage to the shield, you still hve to roll.

Sounds fine to me

-Tatsu

 

[Infiniti2000]

Indeed, lines work similarly to bursts, but they are not bursts. I'm unclear why it matters (I might've missed something)?

Because cover does nothing against spread effects. The spread will affect everything in every square it reaches.

If a lightning bolt is stopped* in your square, then it does not pass through your square, making the last line inapplicable.
*by your tower shield, because it is a barrier that blocks line of effect when you are taking full cover from it

The lightning bolt is most assuredly NOT stopped in your square. The tower shield provides YOU total cover, not your square. For instance, if you were fighting a couple of Tiny creatures in your square, then those creatures would definitely be affected. I don't think anyone would disagree with this.

Don't confuse this problem for line of effect. This has nothing to do with line of effect at all. The enemy wizard simply put the area effect lightning through your square, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

 

[mvincent]

Because cover does nothing against spread effects. The spread will affect everything in every square it reaches.

The lightning bolt is most assuredly NOT stopped in your square. The tower shield provides YOU total cover, not your square. For instance, if you were fighting a couple of Tiny creatures in your square, then those creatures would definitely be affected. I don't think anyone would disagree with this.

Don't confuse this problem for line of effect. This has nothing to do with line of effect at all. The enemy wizard simply put the area effect lightning through your square, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

I'm not sure I understand you. A lightning bolt is a line, and not a spread. The rules you quoted earlier apply:
"A line-shaped spell shoots away from you in a line in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and extends to the limit of its range or until it strikes a barrier that blocks line of effect. "

The description of the spell corraborates this:
"If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the bolt may continue beyond the barrier if the spell’s range permits; otherwise, it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does."

Are you saying that a Tower shield is not a barrier, or is their some other part of your argument that I fail to understand?

 

[Infiniti2000]

I'm not sure I understand you. A lightning bolt is a line, and not a spread.

A line is an area effect and therefore must (should) be one of the following: emanation, burst, or spread. We all agree I'm sure it's not an emanation. So, which is it, burst or spread? If the latter, it ignores the cover. If the former, no save is required. In either case, since the lightning bolt did not target the shield itself, it never takes any damage except in the case of a spread and the PC rolls a natural one.

Since it's really undefined, we should only be using the spell description, which clearly states that it affects everything in the squares it passes through. There's nothing about cover in it at all. So, it actually works like a spread, but it doesn't say it is a spread.

The one example referenced earlier (only in the PH, not in the SRD) lends credence to it being a burst, however, which is not supported anywhere else. Nothing about cover says that the cover is destroyed, however, so by no means should you be applying damage to the shield unless the shield were specifically targeted (and this is a huge problem should you houserule this being allowed). I strongly encourage everyone to reconsider allowing lightning bolt, or other lines, to target people's equipment (unless the spells specifically allow it).

A tower shield is not a barrier. It is equipment. What constitutes a barrier is somewhat open to interpretation, but for the sake of balance and consistency, don't let equipment fall into that category. I'd say a wall would be a barrier, or perhaps anything that would actually stop the spell at that square (e.g. a large table). As I've shown above in the Tiny creature example, a tower shield certainly does not constitute a barrier.

Does this make more sense?

 

[mvincent]

A line is an area effect and therefore must (should) be one of the following: emanation, burst, or spread.

It appears that while line spells might list emanation, they do not list burst or spread. This seems to be because there is no need, because they cannot be spreads (i.e. the difference between spread and burst is that spreads turn corners... and lines cannot turn corners). The description of lines seems to corraborate this and seems fairly clear to me.

A tower shield is not a barrier.

Total cover is a barrier. A tower shield is unlike other gear because it can be used as total cover. When used for total cover a tower shield is a barrier (except for targetted spells, which lightning is not).