D&D General TPK or Imprison

TPK or Imprison?

  • TPK

    Votes: 19 35.8%
  • Imprison

    Votes: 31 58.5%
  • You're History's Worst DM

    Votes: 3 5.7%

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I should note that this thing with the BBEG is the finale of the campaign even though it is at relatively low level due to scheduling stuff and some incompatibility between players and preferences.
If the PCs are working for the local authorities or have done good works on behalf of the populace, the BBEG might want to keep them prisoner as insurance in case things go wrong. Having a beloved group of heroes as a bargaining chip is a great reason for him to imprison them.
 

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dragoner

KosmicRPG.com
Neither is a great option but given some choices my players have made recently, it looks like it has to be one or the other.

So -- should I have the PCs captured and have an opportunity to escape and also finish their mission (they would be imprisoned in the BBEG fortress) even though there is no real reason for the bad guys to spare them? Or you the dice fall where they may and if it turns into a TPK, so be it? TPKs are a bummer, though,a nd the campaign almost always ends on a down note. Of course, it could also be both, as they TPK while trying to escape.
As a player, I am often as much of a fan of a TPK as I am capture scenario. As GM, it depends, usually I will nudge around the issue with players, such as do they want to continue with the game? Then it is capture, often with the cost of gear.
 

NotAYakk

Legend
Long story short, they allowed two separate enemies to escape, are extremely low on resources (and have even lost one party member) and are planning on taking a long rest right next to the unsecured teleportation circle leading to the BBEG lair. They have convinced themselves through a circular argument between players that the bad guys will lay in wait for them to come through, ignoring the fact that the second escapee knows they are in their weakest possible state and nothing is stopping a force to come through the portal to attack. One player has been adamant that they should leave the location to rest and go the overland route to the BBEG lair (which is a good idea and would work) but other players have argued him down.
So, teleporting into a circle is a highly dangerous act if the circle is occupied by your enemies.

They could easily have set up a killer ambush, possibly guarded against scrying, hitting whomever shows up. They can even destroy the circle easily during teleportation, splitting your forces if you come in waves.

If the BBEG has any kind of plans that the players are disrupting, then breaking the teleportation link and finishing their plans makes a lot of sense.

An initial scout through the portal is also a good idea. Any scrying on an alert enemy in a plausible ambush spot should be considered suspect; so if they can, they'd scry the location (doesn't even grant a saving throw, but does open up risk the PCs spot the sensor), confirm a lack of ambush, send through a scouting force (cheap enough to lose, strong/sneaky enough to last a round) via teleportation circle, keep scry up to see if the sensor was faked out, then send a larger follow-up force through next round.

Lacking scry, you do much the same, except you send a scouting force with the ability to know if they are wiped out and/or communicate back (a sending, for example).

Lacking even that ability, BBEG side either (a) set up a killer ambush at their end, (b) send a reconnaissance-in-force through, or (c) break the teleportation circle link.

The BBEG side should assume the other side is clever, even if the PCs are acting dumb.

---

Anyhow, as for the result, don't fall into "DM my guy" syndrome.

My guy syndrome is when a player does something that makes the game less fun for everyone, because "their PC would do that". The fact is, their PC's motivations are within the player's control.

Similarly, as the DM, the BBEG motivations and the like are within your control.

If you want the PCs captured or similar, it isn't "they have no reason to capture the PCs", it is "I cannot think of a reason they would capture the PCs that is consistent with what the PCs know about the BBEG's side and the constraints of my planned plot".

If you want them captured, what I'd do is think back over the last sessions or the PCs backstory or the like, and see if you can invent a connection between something utterly random that happened and a reason to capture the PCs.

Once you have invented that connection, and found something to ground it in, pretend that was the plan all along. Work out a way to highlight that connection -- it could be as simple as one of the BBEG side saying it openly when the PCs are captured -- so the PCs see the reveal.

In the last fight, did they focus-fire PC1 and not attack PC2 that much? Is PC2 some strange race? Turns out that they where under orders to capture PC2, because they need PC2s blood for an experiment. I mean, didn't the players catch that? It was so telegraphed. (Actually, it wasn't true until you needed an excuse to capture the PCs). The capture of the other PCs is collateral damage by some underling who wasn't clear which ones are supposed to be kept alive.

You could even have the BBEG brutally kill one PC (talk to the player first, maybe the one who warned everyone that this was a dumb plan, or someone whose character arc could do with a replacement), and they reroll a new PC that helps them get out of confinement in the BBEG dungeon.
 

Panfilo

Existential Risk
If the PCs are working for the local authorities or have done good works on behalf of the populace, the BBEG might want to keep them prisoner as insurance in case things go wrong. Having a beloved group of heroes as a bargaining chip is a great reason for him to imprison them.
I like this, especially since if even a single one of the player characters has a background tie to wealth or a title or an important NPC or an artifact hook, a rational BBEG might want to use them for ransom.
 

Mort

Legend
Supporter
Long story short, they allowed two separate enemies to escape, are extremely low on resources (and have even lost one party member) and are planning on taking a long rest right next to the unsecured teleportation circle leading to the BBEG lair. They have convinced themselves through a circular argument between players that the bad guys will lay in wait for them to come through, ignoring the fact that the second escapee knows they are in their weakest possible state and nothing is stopping a force to come through the portal to attack. One player has been adamant that they should leave the location to rest and go the overland route to the BBEG lair (which is a good idea and would work) but other players have argued him down.

My big question? Was the "this is a HORRIBLE place to rest" telegraphed strongly enough? One person caught on, but the rest clearly didn't.

I find I have to be REALLY clear with this kind of telegraphing of info as what seems clear to me (or any DM with full knowledge) is almost certainly not to the players.

I'd tend to go with capture for my players (but possible TPK) as that presents fun opportunities for later as opposed to just a reboot.
 

R_J_K75

Legend
Imprison them and then BTK them. If there is no reason for the BBEG to spare them then personally if I were a player in this campaign and we were spared or given some cheesy opportunity to escape and win the day I'd feel cheated. I've done this before as a DM and if its not believable its not rewarding for the players or the DM IME. So the campaign ends on a down note, it happens, cant win em all.
 

Laurefindel

Legend
Yeah, I find TPK a bummer too in the kind of games I like to play. And yet, the menace of a TPK needs to be real enough to keep the thrill going, and give satisfaction in "not dying".

As a DM, I see TPD (total party down) as a defeat, a failure. This can have several consequences, death for the whole party being one. Being imprisoned, getting robbed, being "taught a lesson", given a "warning", losing something important are just a few off my head. I usually try to telegraph fights that might lead to a real TPK. I find that it's easier to build and exploit tension as a narrative tool this way.
 


Reynard

Legend
After reading responses and thinking on it, I am leaning toward imprisonment by fiat. "You barely remember what happened. The teleportation circle began to glow and your alarm spell started to scream, but then the pain in your minds took over." (Some of the enemies are psionic.) They wake up in the cells without rest or gear and maybe a level of exhaustion, but they are actually closer to their goal. Now the question becomes do they attempt to escape or attempt to finish the mission -- even if they do so, they probably won't survive.

The alternative is to actually let that fight run out, which is where I am afraid the TPK will come in because in my experience, players refuse to surrender ever, and only very rarely flee. The worst case scenario would be for half the party to be dead and half the party captured, I think. It would be really tough to plausibly inject a bunch of replacement PCs.

I do have one other option: they made friends-ish with a self interested, kind of villainous party who is established to have the power necessary to save the party at the last minute. If I want to avoid the problem altogether and take the choice out of the PCs hands, they can show up and be like "Come with me if you want to live, and then you can do that job I asked you about a few weeks ago." Among the problems with this solution is that it veers off this storyline and I am trying to wrap things up.

GMing is hard sometimes.
 

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