D&D General TPK or Imprison

[Reynard]

Let's think about this from a goal oriented perspective.

First off, this is a Rime of the Frostmaiden campaign, with a couple important changes. The PCs are a group deputized by the Council of Speakers to sort of create confidence in the Council despite the unending winter and other hardships. It so happened based on random rolls the first real threat they encountered was the duergar, and so they hyper focused on it. As such and given the character levels, when I decided to turn it into a mini-campaign (again mostly because the group isn't gelling despite all being people I have otherwise played with successfully in other contexts) I decided to at least resolve this story for them. I know I hate an unfinished arc. To do that, I decided there would be a direct access (teleportation circle) between the outpost and the fortress.

The party assaulted the outpost and the son escaped. Then they took a short rest and went to clean out the rest of the duergar and another lieutenant got away. They are convinced -- except the barbarian -- that the bad guys are laying passively in wait so they figure they can take a long rest then assault. But that lieutenant witnessed them getting nearly spent as well as their cleric dying outright before fleeing. There is no reason for a force not to come to retake the outpost of the PCs take the time to long rest.

EDIT: I forgot the goal part because I am trying to cook dinner. The long and short of it: I want a satisfying conclusion to this arc so I can end this campaign on a high note (even if that means an epic fight they lose).

 

[Mort]

Let's think about this from a goal oriented perspective.

First off, this is a Rime of the Frostmaiden campaign, with a couple important changes. The PCs are a group deputized by the Council of Speakers to sort of create confidence in the Council despite the unending winter and other hardships. It so happened based on random rolls the first real threat they encountered was the duergar, and so they hyper focused on it. As such and given the character levels, when I decided to turn it into a mini-campaign (again mostly because the group isn't gelling despite all being people I have otherwise played with successfully in other contexts) I decided to at least resolve this story for them. I know I hate an unfinished arc. To do that, I decided there would be a direct access (teleportation circle) between the outpost and the fortress.

The party assaulted the outpost and the son escaped. Then they took a short rest and went to clean out the rest of the duergar and another lieutenant got away. They are convinced -- except the barbarian -- that the bad guys are laying passively in wait so they figure they can take a long rest then assault. But that lieutenant witnessed them getting nearly spent as well as their cleric dying outright before fleeing. There is no reason for a force not to come to retake the outpost of the PCs take the time to long rest.

Is there a plausible way to clue the rest of the party onto the fact that the barbarian is right and a long rest here is a TERRIBLE idea?

 

[Vaalingrade]

Why would the BBEG who has intel that they were spent and lost their healer think they would hang around rather than fall back?

 

[Reynard]

Why would the BBEG who has intel that they were spent and lost their healer think they would hang around rather than fall back?

They wouldn't necessarily but they would certainly attempt to retake the outpost with force.

 

[iserith]

I should note that this thing with the BBEG is the finale of the campaign even though it is at relatively low level due to scheduling stuff and some incompatibility between players and preferences.

Frankly, this is all that matters in my view. These sorts of real world issues tend to impact the game way more than a TPK might, so it sounds like it's just time to wrap this thing up, readjust the group, and start something new (or take a break).

They know there's a risk in resting near the portal. One player has said as much and nobody listened. So let the final fight happen and if the PCs TPK, then so be it. Some may escape, some may be captured, some may die. The story ends on an Empire Strikes Back down note with the possibility of revisiting the party in some future episode involving ewoks.

So my advice is to ignore all the other considerations except the one I quoted, wrap it up, and move on.

 

[billd91]

Let's think about this from a goal oriented perspective.

First off, this is a Rime of the Frostmaiden campaign, with a couple important changes. The PCs are a group deputized by the Council of Speakers to sort of create confidence in the Council despite the unending winter and other hardships. It so happened based on random rolls the first real threat they encountered was the duergar, and so they hyper focused on it. As such and given the character levels, when I decided to turn it into a mini-campaign (again mostly because the group isn't gelling despite all being people I have otherwise played with successfully in other contexts) I decided to at least resolve this story for them. I know I hate an unfinished arc. To do that, I decided there would be a direct access (teleportation circle) between the outpost and the fortress.

The party assaulted the outpost and the son escaped. Then they took a short rest and went to clean out the rest of the duergar and another lieutenant got away. They are convinced -- except the barbarian -- that the bad guys are laying passively in wait so they figure they can take a long rest then assault. But that lieutenant witnessed them getting nearly spent as well as their cleric dying outright before fleeing. There is no reason for a force not to come to retake the outpost of the PCs take the time to long rest.

OK, there may be no reason for a force to not come and retake the outpost... but can they muster a force in a reasonable amount of time? If so, then interrupt the hell out of their long rest after about the half-way mark (assuming it takes 4 hours to muster that response).
But sure, go for the imprisonment - the duergar are probably interested in other aspects of this group opposing them, like other groups the Council of Speakers might be working with - but I would definitely not do capture by fiat. If I want a capture, I hit them with overwhelming force and play it out. With the ability to choose between killing and achieving a knockout at 0 hp with melee weapons, you've got a relatively easy method for doing so without really inflicting a TPK. Doing it by fiat is just asking for trouble.

 

[Reynard]

It doesn't make sense to me as DM, based on all that has been established, that the duergar wouldn't retake the outpost. The world knows that long rests are a thing, so they would do it before 8 hours were up after the lieutenant reported back. So this is the core of the question.

I feel weird (and I'm not sure why) interjecting my editorial voice and saying, "Guys, the barbarian right. GTFO."

 

[Dausuul]

Why would the BBEG who has intel that they were spent and lost their healer think they would hang around rather than fall back?

That is a very good point. Thinking about it from the BBEG's point of view: Obviously, they are going to send a force through the circle to re-establish control of their outpost. But they have no reason to expect the PCs to be hanging around at the other end. The teleporting force will be on guard--there is always the chance of an ambush--but they won't be coming out in full attack mode. Nor will they necessarily be bringing overwhelming firepower.

I have the impression from what @Reynard has been saying that this is a two-way portal (i.e., you don't have to be a 9th-level wizard and cast teleportation circle to use it, it's always on). So how about this: A group of duergar mooks pops in and discovers that the PCs are still there! One of them yells that he'll bring reinforcements and darts back through the portal.

A fight ensues, which the exhausted PCs can probably win, but will not be easy and might cost them another party member. Then they have a few moments to catch their breath. Hopefully, knowing about the impending reinforcements convinces them to bug out.

If not, well, you can lead a PC to the escape hatch, but you can't make them not jump into lava instead.

 

[Blue]

Maybe the bad guys have a use for them. Sacrifice them for a power up to their ritual, etc.

Heck, you can even start it, partially suck out their souls, and impose some sort of penalty. For example, the penalty from Raise Dead.

 

[Mort]

It doesn't make sense to me as DM, based on all that has been established, that the duergar wouldn't retake the outpost. The world knows that long rests are a thing, so they would do it before 8 hours were up after the lieutenant reported back. So this is the core of the question.

I feel weird (and I'm not sure why) interjecting my editorial voice and saying, "Guys, the barbarian right. GTFO."

Well it could be something as simple as the the Barbarian's hunch being confirmed by faint tracks coming from the direction of the circle.

BUT the more I'm reading the more I tend to agree with @iserith. You're looking for an endpoint, this provides one - one way or the other. And frankly, if the party gets caught with their pants down, well that's mostly on them. Long rest anywhere near enemy territory is dangerous and needs to be thought of as such!