TPK or not TPK

[Zappo]

Ate my ferrets after roasting them on my burning sofa.

?!?!?

 

[Pielorinho]

I've had one TPK in my gaming career, and I blame myself for it.

Currently, I'm much more of a storyteller DM: I gleefully fudge things if it's necessary for improving the fun for everyone.

I have one player who is absolutely fantastic at the story-side of things: she writes up pages of NPCs from her character's background that are bristling with plot hooks (Melikke is a smuggler who pays in mysterious gems she calls "Dead Man's Pearls"; she smuggles a drug that produces a mild euphoria to humans but which is considered very dangerous by seadwelling races; her companion has a lattice of gold webbing across his teeth and is constantly chewing fennel candies to disguise his foul breath; etc.). I've more than once hung a side-adventure off of this stuff she writes for me.

But she can't figure out how to fight to save her life.

So I fudge on her behalf. Her characters don't get attacked as often as other characters, even though they probably should be. If she screws up and ends up doing something that results in her death, I'll let her take it back, or I'll reduce the damage to a nonlethal amount, or I'll replace part of the damage with ability-point damage.

It improves her fun, it improves my fun, and it improves everyone's fun. Her focus on storytelling and dramatic detail adds a great deal to my game.

A TPK would suck hard.

Daniel

 

[Sigma]

SPOILERS FOR FORGE OF FURY!






The party was searching around the dwarven fortress and managed to find a back way in. Figuring that the back door would allow them the element of surprise, that's the route they took. Unfortunately, that way lead to a deeper level of the dungeon where the PC's were expected to be higher level. They emerged by a troglodyte and his bear. They were thinking 'oh, it's just a bear' and got into combat.

Turned out bears in 3e were a lot deadlier than in 2e (we were playtesting at the time, very new to 3e). Three characters were killed, two were knocked to negatives.

Ugly.

 

[spunky_mutters]

The thing I hate about fudging is that it destroys any sense of tension or challenge. If players feel that they can't die, that there's nothing on the line, they won't have the same feeling in the pit of their stomach when they see you pulling out the damage dice. I enjoy the tension also.

Balancing the game is tough, and when your players ride that thin edge to victory, you know that you got it right.

It's an amazing feeling when the players ignore your advice and turn the tables on you. On one occasion, my players had stumbled through a gate that I hadn't expected them to find for a few more levels. They were pretty much trapped on the bottom level of the largest dungeon on that world. There was another gate out, but it didn't lead home. They chose to explore. That was okay, as the area around the gate was pretty tame. But these 3rd level guys ignored all my advice to get out (they encountered the spirit of one of the previous inhabitants who detailed what they would be facing on the level above). They chose to attack a Derro outpost on the level above them. This was almost certain death. The Derro had spellcasters, and they more than a match for them in combat.

Things were going against the players, and the mage had taken a nasty hit. He was down to 2hp, and I gave him a heads up that on of the Derro was focusing on him (he had been casting against the Derro casters, and was their biggest threat). So the party basically concedes any opportunity to retreat, the mage doesn't forgoes ducking into a ruined building nearby and casts at the Derro again. He knew he was going to die. He knew he was about to face a 7hd fireball. All I needed to roll was 11 to kill him (CON 9, using that as the threshold). He manages to disable a bunch of the Derro with a web or something, allowing the fighters to move on the mages. Then I throw down the damage dice in front of everyone...9 on 7 dice. He looked pretty smug and taunted me a bit, but I was relieved. The players ended up winning the combat, thanks largely to his actions. A retreat would have been costly at that point, most likely costing a couple of lives. They were nowhere near a place to get healed. I really wasn't sure what they would do.


This is the kind of tension you don't get if players never die. All of our TPKs are tradeoffs for the feeling that you're flying by the seat of your pants, and that all of your actions matter.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Once you "fudge" enough for players they begin to catch on, and they keep doing more and more foolish things thinking I'll save them*. I've been rolling the dice out in the open lately, and letting things fall where they may. Adventuring is a hard life, and it's usually a short one.

*at least my players are like that, the bastards!

 

[KB9JMQ]

My group has never suffered a TPK.

But after fair warning if they continue recklessly a TPK could happen if it happened naturally.

 

[Leopold]

i NEVER fudge the dice..if the book says "fails his fort save and dies" so be it he's dead. If the party is foolish enough to charge in and get killed so be it they die.

I was running night below converted to 3e (check the conversion section for it, mine is modified differently). The party charges into the keep:

1. Without scouting
2. Without doing recon
3. With no regard to stealth in approach (the went to the gates that were newly painted yet the keep is very old and ripped the gates down rather loudly, no stealth).
4. IN the middle of the day (10am).
5. Charged down a narrow 10ft wide path toward an open area from the gates.

Of course the enemy had advanced warning and snipers picked off the rogue, dropped 2 NPC's, killed the fighter, and stunned the cleric into submission. So in the end the only useful pc's were the cleric and the halfling rogue who might be of use, but no need for the fighter so he died.

Total
Party
Knockout

In the end they accused me of overwhelming tactics and unfair advantages, cheating, lying, etc. I just asked them plainly: "Why did you charge into a unknown, uncharted, known hostile enviornment in the middle of the day?" They promptly realized the error of their ways and the next time when they returned they did it with no losses.

Remember the old rule as a DM: You (the DM) don't killl PC's, the PC's kill PC's.

 

[kengar]

speaking of FoF... [SOME SPOILERS]

Hooo doggies!

That was my only TPK. The party had been wiping the floor with everything in the place. I tried to adjust the challenges (add a few orcs, give everything max standard HP, etc.). Nothing worked. The rogue got killed by Yellow Mold, but they got him raised no problem (was actually a nice side adventure in the trip to a city with a powerful enough cleric).

So it's taking a few sessions to get through the thing and between gaming nights, I ask the group via email "Hey, you're saying the module is too easy. If you want, I can adjust a few upcoming encounters. I'll boost the rewards appropriately, of course; but there'll be some greater risk."

"BRING IT ON!!" was the consensus.

So, for starters, I left in the roper (optional encounter). The thing is CR10 & they're 6th level (I know the module is meant for a lower level party, but they kept taking side trips and coming back, so they got "outside" XP. One of the reasons it was taking so long). "This should be good!" I think to myself and spring the roper on them.

They cleaned its clock.

So now, of course, I'm looking ahead to the dragon encounter. It's CR4 by the book & they just wiped out a CR10 creature with SR! Since they're now closing in on 7th, I boost ol' Nightscale to a CR8 (Young Adult?) and work out some BADD tactics.

Only the rogue got away.

...and that's because I lost track of how far up the ladder he was for one round. I could've had the dragon chase him down the mountain, but that would've been vindictive and I didn't have the heart.

I was stunned. This group was pulverized by this dragon. Between it casting Mage Armor on itself and using Darkness, they were screwed. It took less than 10% of its hp in damage. I felt really bad about it, but I couldn't backtrack. I stuck to my guns & the campaign basically ended. I'd warned them repeatedly and they kept asking for more. *sigh*


Sometimes you just have to kill an entire party to get players to use a little risk assessment. We're playing a new campaign in new setting now. One of the others is DM-ing this time. It's fun and I will probably run the next campaign, but I notice folks are a little more cautious in this campaign than the last.

 

[Henry]

Our current Homebrew D&D game has had two very-near total party kills, and two OTHER instances where several players died because of rash actions. Out of the past four games, that's quite a tally.

However, I can confidently say that the players have learned a valuable lesson from all the carnage:

1) NEVER split the party in the face of a serious challenge. In our most recent advanture, the party faced down some goblin/hobgoblin tribesmen who were prepared for them (and who had potions to boost their combat ability - they STILL don't know where they got those potions from. ). Just before facing the bulk of the 14-strong tribe, two party members went AWOL to attack a big burrowing creature with faceted eyes. More about the creature later, but JUST before invading the home of a superior number with trained troops, 30% of the firepower runs off to pursue another goal! The main group still won, but it was a somewhat pyrrhic victory.

2) NEVER send party members one by one into an unknown situation. In the previous session, the PC's were investigating a kidnapping, in which some documents as well as a person, were stolen. Trying to get into the back room of a bar, the players began to one-by-one enter the back room, and consequently get picked off one after another. It took losing two PC's and having a third thrown out a front window before they cut their losses and retreated.

3) NEVER challenge something that is VERY obviously above your challenge level. In example #1 above, the two PC's (all party was 2nd level, with rahter good stats) decided that the 12-foot tall armored bug-eyed monster that caused confusion was worth trying to kill "to get the experience." In the very first round, the first PC was reduced to negative hit points, and in the third round, the second PC took enough damage to be torn in half. Both proceeded boldly into the creature's lair, and the second PC never thought once about retreating, though given ample time to do so, and an escape route.

 

[Sigma]

1) NEVER split the party in the face of a serious challenge. In our most recent advanture, the party faced down some goblin/hobgoblin tribesmen who were prepared for them (and who had potions to boost their combat ability - they STILL don't know where they got those potions from. ). Just before facing the bulk of the 14-strong tribe, two party members went AWOL to attack a big burrowing creature with faceted eyes. More about the creature later, but JUST before invading the home of a superior number with trained troops, 30% of the firepower runs off to pursue another goal! The main group still won, but it was a somewhat pyrrhic victory.

Reminds me of a D&D joke.

How my adventurers does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

All of them. Never split the party!