Tracy Hickman's view of the Dragon #300 sealed section

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Khan the Warlord said:
How dare Tracy Hickman equate the writers and editors responsible for Dragon #300 and The Book of Vile Darkness to TERRORISM?! Mr. Hickman owes everyone that he slandered in his newsletter an apology.
I think this is overreacting - he didn't compare the authors to terrorists - he compared the writing of books that encourage role-playing of evil as being similar to encouraging terrorist activity.

Is Mr. Hickman's comparison a little over-the-top? Probably.

Here it is before someone else claims it:
Cooley's Corollary to Godwin's Law - Godwin's Law is equally effective when "Terrorist" and "Bin Laden" are substituted for "Nazi" and "Hitler."

That seals it: I will never again purchase anything with Mr. Hickman's name attached to it, which is quite sad, as he *WAS* an old favorite of mine. This type of irresponsible disclosure of his opinion should convince WotC to never allow him to author a work for them again.

That type of closed mentality reminds me of the Mothers Against Dungeons and Dragons so long ago. Its sad to see an industry leader informing the world that M.A.D.D was right so many years ago.
Ah. Explain to me how your close-minded mentality ("anyone who has an opinion about morality that is different {specifically, more rigid/conservative} from mine is not worth listening to") is any different than Tracy's... because you're "more enlightened?" These two paragraphs together do smack of a little hypocrisy. You're slamming the door on someone because he actually "disclos{ed his} opinion"? Heaven help Mystic Eye Games if you have an opinion I don't agree with and I find out about it. Sheesh. So he doesn't have the same moral principles you do... so what? So he was willing to share them... so what? Really, I think you're over-recting.

Shame on you, Tracy Hickman.
Shame on you for overreacting and blasting someone for expressing their opinion just because it is different than yours.

The correct response to Tracy's letter, if you do not agree with him is something along the lines of, "Tracy, you're overreacting. There is a difference between talking about evil - what these works are doing - and advocating and committing acts of evil - which comprises the terrorist activity you attempted to equate them with. If you want a good treatise on this, read the treatment Orson Scott Card (a fellow Mormon) gives on the subject of literature that depicts evil vs. literature that advocates evil vs. literature that is evil. I disagree with you, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I expect you to honor mine."

--The Sigil
 

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Henry said:
I think we need to keep Tracy's character in mind here; who he is in TSR's history - and what he's seen in his years of the gaming industry. Past that, I might write up a response to this article, if no one minds. :)

i liked your longer response Henry. and agree with it, mostly.
 

Re: Terrorism????

Hardhead said:
Mr. Hickman should be ashamed.

If I read as poorly as some of the people on this thread, I'd certainly be ashamed, even humiliated. Even through the inflammatory hyperbole, Mr. Hickman's point was obvious. "Are there really so many people who would rather be villians than heroes that it really justifies risking D&D's return to a 60 minutes segment?"

Mr. Hickman's opinion might well be more inciteful than insightful (damn I'm good), and even less than brilliantly written. But willful misinterpritation, and misstatement of it hardly makes those presenting their opposing views seem more articulate.




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Posted edited for inappropriate content - please don't make me close down 2 threads in one day. . .
 
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I also feel that Hickman's equation of Dragon 300's "vile" content to terrorism to be unwise. It's along the lines of people who label as "nazis" anyone with whom they disagree - it cheapens the currency of the word.
 

Eosin the Red said:

Equating him to a Latter Day Saint is not only rude but it is against the rules of this board and is derogatory to tLDS - why not insinuate he is a Muslim, maybe Jew or Minnonite would work better.

Dude- ya might wanna go back and reread some stuff. Nobody equated him to anything. Someone stated he IS a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints..a minister even.
 

DocMoriartty said:
I did no such thing and offended at your suggestion

Good. It seems to be the kewl fad today to be "offended" by comments of others- and to mock those offended by an actual product. I did not want to be left out.

You don't think suggesting Hickman had a "reactionary and narrow mind" or suggesting his comments were like "the kind of crap I expect from religous extremists and other wackos" isn't demonizing the comments of Hickman that you happen to disagree with?

I guess it depends which side of the issue you are on.

FD
 

Stormprince said:

First of all, Tracy's correlation between "terrorism" was not just out from left field. He opened his mail box on September 11th, when you could not avoid thinking about terrorism (it was on just about every television station, in every newspaper, on every radio station). He saw something that offended him. He has the right to be offended. He also has the right to state his opinion in his own newsletter. Tracy has a very strong sense of what is good and evil, right and wrong, a strong sense of morality. His sense of morality was offended by seeing an entire magazine that is mailed to a wide-audience dedicated to "evil."

He certainly is entitled to his opinions, but there is an added amount of responsibility and common sense he should use before he decided to take his level of "industry fame" to slander innocent designers that were required to complete a project (Monte may have came up with the idea, but I'm sure everyone else assigned was forced to expound and assist whether they liked it or not).

Tracy Hickman is guilty of slandering innocent industry professionals and should make a public apology to all involved. He is also guilty of trivializing the REAL tragedy that occured a year ago with the terrorist attacks.

I'm sure the families of those that died that day wouldn't enjoy seeing those events compared to a silly method of thinking concerning how a role-playing game should be played.

He also mistakenly took the approach of insulting the general gamer that would desire to play an evil PC or implement parts of tBoVD by saying " And my I further suggest that you demonstrate your own maturity by avoiding purchasing or playing ANYTHING labeled for ‘Mature Audiences Only".


A magazine where there are subscribers who are kids. A magazine with a "sealed" section to supposedly prevent children from reading it. Come on now, a sealed section? Who do you know didn't unseal that section? Do you think any of these same people who may not be able to get into an R-rated movie without being escorted by an adult asked permission from their parents before they unsealed that section?

A magazine that over-dramatized the contents of the work by the opinion of everyone that has read it save Tracy Hickman (I've yet to see someone that has read the sealed portions agree that it *should* have been sealed). A magazine that despite whatever some people say (marketing ploy or legitimate concern), tried to stop younger audiences from perusing its "questionable" contents.

A magazine that has given Mr. Hickman work in the past and didn't deserve the public lashing that it received by Mr. Hickman.

Personally, I don't need any product to tell me how to "make evil really evil." I have plenty of resources in real life, as Tsyr pointed out.

Well, I'm glad for you -- I really am. However, not every player of the D&D game can say the same thing, or perhaps they're just too lazy to research "evil" for themselves. For whatever reason, there are multitudes of people that want this book and who has the right to stop WotC from giving it to them?

The fact that they're putting out only the Book of Vile Darkness, and not a companion "Good" book, just goes to show that it's one of those pure marketing manuscripts.


Do you know the product release schedule of WotC for the next 5 years or so? Nope, I didn't think so. Whether they decide to make a companion "Good" book or not is irrelevant -- there are people that want this book and they're getting it.

Oh yeah, it was written by Monte Cook. How could I forget? How "dare" Tracy disagree with someone Monte or another writer put out. Shame on him. Grow up. Tracy and Laura Hickman worked for TSR to create the same worlds that still exist today.


And this reasoning excuses Tracy for inappropriately slandering the names of good people? I don't care if the EGG, or Monte Cook said those remarks, I would nail them both on it.

They created Ravenloft.

Yep, which is very ironic -- it is like the pot calling the kettle "black".

Tracy has never made it a secret how he feels about morality. He didn't agree with having a character just be a thief, so he envisioned a race of innocent kleptomaniacs. Tracy and Margaret have dealt with and created some of the most memorable "evil" characters in modern fantasy. Lord Soth. Count Strahd. Raistlin. Mina. Dalamar, and now Prince Dagnarus in the Sovereign Stone trilogy. Need I go on? What makes them interesting characters, however, isn't the fact that they are evil, but despite the fact that they are evil.

That is his creative approach and I loved almost every character. However, this doesn't give him the right to force his opinion on how evil should be handled in such an insulting and degrading manner, to both the designers and the customers that want it.

But to be fair to him, you're only seeing a message that he typed up in the heat of the moment. You haven't read some of his responses to the Dragonlance fans on the mailing lists. You haven't sitten down and talked to him about his viewpoints.


Feel free to post a few snippets of his replies then. I would love to see them and I bet others would too. But, if you want, you can simply email them to me. Whichever.

Just as you loudly proclaimed "I am boycotting all his Sovereign Stone and Dragonlance stuff," he has the right to "boycott" this one particular issue of Dragon Magazine.

I believe I was the only one loudly proclaiming my own personal boycott of all things Hickman. However, if Tracy would stand up and admit his mistake (not his opinion, but the rude and insulting manner in which he gave it), then I would gladly purchase every Hickman-related product that I originally planned to. Hell, I would forget the event ever occured.

What is the possibility of that happening?
 

I see an awful lot of condemnation for Hickman and his thoughts and beliefs, his comparing the BoVD to Terrorism and the like, but not a lot of discussion of the central point of the arguement. That is, if DnD is a game about heroes and heroics, why all the focus on evil and depravity? Why are publishers putting out books about playing "evil" campaigns? Why are people actually looking forward to a book that covers topics like necrophilia, slavery and the selling of one's soul?

I seem to recall Monte Cook here mentioning The Book of Exhalted Deeds would be a tougher sell for the DnD audience because it would cover the same ole-same ole.

While I think Tracy got a bit carried away in some of his comparisons, as we are all like to do when we feel passionate about something, I think his opinion has a lot of merit. Does a book that revels in the "darker" aspect really add something substantial and positive to the DnD lexicon, or does it just revel in the kewl dark-fantasy fad? Does, in some way, it do more harm to the game then good? Not that villains don't play an important role in the game, but they certainly aren't meant to be the focus.

I've seen one post of someone declaring he will never purchase anything Tracy writes ever again because he compared a section of Dragon magazine to terrorists. I haven't seen anyone declare they will do the same for Monte Cook for introducing spells based on necrophilia to the game. Is that because terrorism is all too real and necrophilia is...well...necrophilia? Please!
 

Eosin the Red said:
Equating him to a Latter Day Saint is not only rude but it is against the rules of this board and is derogatory to tLDS - why not insinuate he is a Muslim, maybe Jew or Minnonite would work better.
Uh, Tracey is a Mormon. All you have to do is look at the "About the Author" section of any Dragonlance novel to figure that one out. Nobody is insinuating he is one because of his delicate tastes, he really is one.

And, as we learned as a tangent on another thread a few months back, so are many posters (including me) on this message board.
 

Then he is dumb pure and simple. The book to my knowledge is for DM use. It is intended for the DM to create greater and more vile evil foes for the players.

As they say the greater the evil you oppose, the greater the good you represent.


Stormprince said:


The point Tracy was trying to make here was that it seems that between Dragon 300 and the Book of Vile Darkness, it seems that WotC is encouraging PLAYERS to be evil, vile, corrupt and without any sense of morality.

Christopher
 

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