Pathfinder 1E Trailblazing Pathfinder

[joela]

Looking at the classes, I'm far more favored towards Trailblazer's work. But I'm curious about the reverse, Pathfindering Trailblazer, to turn the phrase.

Is there anything in the Pathfinder system worth bringing over to the Trailblazer toolbox of 3.x fixes?

Spells?, 'k, I can see that as the Trailblazer guys haven't touched upon it yet. Is there some innovation the Trailblazer guys didn't offer something for that Pathfinder did well enough to bring over?

Personally, I like the Pf cleric's Channel Energy class ability and most likely combine with the Tb's cleric's Turn/Rebuke undead ability (i.e., specifically, make CE into a cone).

I also like the Pf fighter's Armour Training class ability.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

But outside of classes, what has Pathfinder innovated that Trailblazer doesn't have something to offer, or that Trailblazer doesn't do as well as Pathfinder? I haven't looked deep enough to Pathfinder as I have with Trailblazer to find things outside of the powers of classes.

But on the matter of classes, there are a few things I'm of a mind to borrow from Pathfinder, like Armor Training, but Channel Energy is not among them. The healing from channel energy I've found is not so needed, the Rest Mechanic gives enough of hit point restoration and even Rangers can get in on the cure spells act now. And the Turn Undead keep the classic AD&D feel of turning undead, which I appreciate.

 

[GlassJaw]

But on the matter of classes, there are a few things I'm of a mind to borrow from Pathfinder, like Armor Training, but Channel Energy is not among them. The healing from channel energy I've found is not so needed, the Rest Mechanic gives enough of hit point restoration and even Rangers can get in on the cure spells act now. And the Turn Undead keep the classic AD&D feel of turning undead, which I appreciate.

We did want to include a "damage" option for turn undead but decided to just fix the core system since there are a lot of options out there already (PF, Complete Divine has a variant, etc)

 

[joela]

But outside of classes, what has Pathfinder innovated that Trailblazer doesn't have something to offer, or that Trailblazer doesn't do as well as Pathfinder? I haven't looked deep enough to Pathfinder as I have with Trailblazer to find things outside of the powers of classes.

Hmmm. Nothing that I can think of at the moment. I think both companies agreed on the 3.x issues but approached solving them differently.

 

[GlassJaw]

Hmmm. Nothing that I can think of at the moment. I think both companies agreed on the 3.x issues but approached solving them differently.

I think it depends on how close or far you want to be from 3.5.

If you want classes that are loaded with new crunch - especially with a nod towards single-classes characters - Pathfinder definitely has the edge. If you want core classes that are closely balanced against each other and that stayed true to their core philosophies (but still got a lot of tweaks), go with TB.

But as far as the core mechanics go, we definitely went a step (or large steps) further with Trailblazer. We weren't as concerned with backwards compatibility (even though you can pretty much run a module as-is with TB). If you dig deep enough, you'll find changes to all sorts of things: cover, firing into melee, underwater combat, aerial combat, injury and dying, healing, improved grab, constrict, etc - all sorts of stuff.

Side note: I had started to create a document that listed all the changes to 3.5 that TB with page references. Did we ever post that?

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Side note: I had started to create a document that listed all the changes to 3.5 that TB with page references. Did we ever post that?

If you had, I'd love for it to be posted again because I missed it. That's in fact partly the inspiration for my thread on Trailblazer's designer notes. In a way, those designer notes were big ol' flags for where changes lie.

 

[Fenris]

Side note: I had started to create a document that listed all the changes to 3.5 that TB with page references. Did we ever post that?

No you did not! That would be very handy to have to introduce new players to TB.

 

[joela]

I think you just need to pick which classes you like better.

If you like Pathfinder classes better, then I'd take the Action Points, AP Enhancements, 10 Minute Rest, Combat Reactions, and Iterative Attacks from Trailblazer.

If you like Trailblazer classes better, then you get all of the above, plus Multiclass Spellcasters, and you use Pathfinder for the spells, monsters, and adventures (at least until such time as we fill the holes for spells and monsters).

Looking at the second option at the moment. Not using the 10 minute rest, though. (Using a modified form of Grace and Health form Book of Experimental Might instead.) Am debating wherever to use Pathfinder's Channel Energy for the clerics instead of Trailblazer's Turn Undead. Thoughts?

 

[GlassJaw]

Am debating wherever to use Pathfinder's Channel Energy for the clerics instead of Trailblazer's Turn Undead. Thoughts?

We were very close to adding a turn damage variant to TB but we ended up just fixing the existing system.

I'm a big fan of turning as damage. We discussed just giving clerics a choice between the two whenever they used their turning ability or making the damage variant a feat or something like that.

I didn't go back and look at all our notes but as I recall, the turning as damage variant is a little trickier to scale. It's on the weak side at lower levels and gets very powerful at the higher levels, especially if the damage dice equals the cleric's level. If the damage level/2, it's almost not worth using.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Also, there's the Gray Render Zombie problem, with it's 20 HD, 133 hp, and CR 6. Unturnable before level 16 in standard 3.5, and while the 9d6 turning damage (~32) of a 9th level cleric would hurt it, turning won't be any more effective than simply beating it to (re)death.

In Trailblazer, a 6th level cleric can actually turn one of those. You won't destroy it until level 40, but at least you can make it go away when it's still level-appropriate.