Training

[hong]

The problem is that PCs and Cohorts are not the only ones capable of gaining levels. All characters and most monsters can gain levels.

Sloppy phrasing on my part, I should have said "advancement as a result of play".

XP is not only earnable via adventuring. You gain it for any encounter. Under the right circumstances, getting a bowl of milk for your cat could earn you a few XP (say for instance the milk was still in the cow, and you don't have any legs or wheelchairs available). Sounds like at least a CR2 encounter to me as far as challenge level goes.

This is basically what I was saying. If you expand the definition of "challenge" to include anything the DM deems convenient, that's not very different to saying you should hand out however much XP (and levels) is required to fit the needs of the campaign. You've just provided a handwave to let it fit within the framework of the rules.

 

[James McMurray]

But, this training is a result of play. Three of my players have leadership. One of those players is sending her followers through training. I want to allow them to gain levels, and keep a system of doing so handy, because when the other two players see that she has gained an in-game benefit from it, they'll want to do the same.

 

[hong]

But, this training is a result of play. Three of my players have leadership. One of those players is sending her followers through training. I want to allow them to gain levels, and keep a system of doing so handy, because when the other two players see that she has gained an in-game benefit from it, they'll want to do the same.

Some time back, I was GMing a Mechwarrior campaign. One of the sessions involved a long jump to some obscure star system, and the PCs wanted to do some training along the way. I said sure. One of the players then asked how much experience they gained as a result of that. My answer was that this was the sort of stuff they did all the time off-stage, and if they _didn't_ train, they'd _lose_ experience.

It's the same story here. Just because training occurs is no reason to assume that advancement occurs. Those followers are presumably training all the time, the better to serve their leader or because they'll get whipped if they don't, or whatever.

 

[James McMurray]

Actually these followers have been pulled from their normal lives to join a hero in her quest to stop undead and gain glory. Many of them were commoners or experts before this training began. Note that she is training entertainers to be bards. Even the warriors did not drill every day before meeting her, as they would have needed jobs to survive. They now have her to pay for food, and can afford to train extensively.

I too would allow PCs to train during downtime. Of course, self-training would involve very litle XP gain (perhaps 100 / week). If they want more than that they'll need to find someone higher level than they are and pay for some classes.

 

[poilbrun]

What about 20 XP per week per level separating the trainer and the person who's training? This way, a 6th level soldier would bring a new soldier from level 1 to level 2 in 10 weeks. But it would also mean that when the new soldier is 5th level, he will only gain experience very slowly, as it would take 250 weeks to become 6th level, which seems logical since the trainer wouldn't have much more to teach him.

Just my 2 cp

 

[James McMurray]

Poilburn: I like that suggestion. It means that the 15th level fighter / Barbarian training these troops will be able to bring them along rather quickly at first (280xp per week), but as they get better, the things he can teach them lessen.

Perhaps there should be a Profession (Teacher) skill though, with checks determining the percentage of the 20xp / level you actually earn?

 

[poilbrun]

I wouldn't use a skill, but maybe a CHA check for the teacher (to see how well he is able to explain what needs to be explained) and an INT check for the student (to see how well he understands what's being said).

Teacher: DC ?. For every point he succeeds, he teaches 1 more XP per week. For every point he fails, 1 less XP per week.
Student: DC ?. The check determines the number of XP he can learn (provided the teacher is able to teach that much [if the teacher failed his check and only gives 18 XP, the student cannot learn more than 18]). With a result equal to the DC, he learns the normal amount of XP each week (20). For each point above, he can learn 1 more XP, for each point below, the maximum XP he can learn falls by 1.

DC 10 if it should be easy to gain levels, DC 20 if it should be hard, DC 15 to be in the middle.

The DC shouldn't be too high since ability bonus are never really high (ranging from -2 to +5 at character creation).

PS: The number of XP for training discussed above must then be multiplied by the difference in level.

[Edit]: I forgot the PS!

[Edit #2]: I wouldn't allow self-training, or maybe only at a slower rate (10 XP a week, only an INT check to see if you learn everything). A higher rate would unbalance things too much IMO, especially for item creation: with 10 XP/week, a spellcaster creating a magic item needs 4 weeks to regain the XP he loses in one day creating the object (since you progress by 1000 gp per day IIRC, which means 40 XP), which would be correct IMO since spending 500 gp and a month for a 1000 gp item is quite balanced, but less time wouldn't be enough and every spellcaster would do it.

 

[Nail]

...<snip>...My answer was that this was the sort of stuff they did all the time off-stage, and if they _didn't_ train, they'd _lose_ experience.

That doesn't work very well. Given that logic, even PCs would be in constant danger of "losing experience" once they got into postions of societal authority (rulers, 'n lords, 'n such). Moreover, losing exp in such a way doesn't mesh well with the 3e system.

Most have read this, I'm sure, but you might want to check out SKR thoughts on how NPC peasants gain experience.

More or less, you just assume that a given unit of time (say, a month) is a certain CR. If the NPC lives through the unit of time, he/she gains XP for an appropriate level CR. Since "rigorous training" is likely to be tougher, just raise the CR.

And, IMHO, I wouldn't make the unit of time any smaller than a month. First, counting that in weeks will lead to player abuse of the system. Second, as anyone who's been thru boot camp will tell you, a week's not long enough t' learn anythin'.

 

[Caliber]

I would suggest a DC of 15, since that seems to be something of a standard. Further, I think a Profession: Teacher would be perfectly acceptable.

If someone is trained in the teaching of others, he should be able to speed up matters. Since the DC is 15, that means most people will still bestow close to 20 XPs a week, but a really skilled Teacher can hand out much more.

Self-Training (if allowed) should probaby precede at half-rate, without any way for 10 XP a week to be increased.

Overall these ideas are all great.

And I hadn't actually read SKR's article about NPCs and XP. It was good, although not quite what I was looking for. Thanks for posting the link though.

 

[kreynolds]

1000 xp per week seems ludicrously high. That would give you 52k xp from one year's study

Unless you're in FR. You'd only get 36,000 XP.