Trample: Limited Use.

[Ysgarran]

Just wanted to check with the experts here. It seems to me that the trample feat really is of limited use. Since it opens your mount up to an AoO most Paladins are not going to want to use it, although...
There is not any reason you couldn't use the Mounted Combat feat to negate the attack. Ah, so it isn't as useless as I thought.

The other thought I had is that you cannot combine the 'overrun' attack with a charge with a Lance. So the Paladin can not do a spirited charge immediately following up in the same round with an 'overrun'. Is this correct?

Thanks,
Ysgarran.


edited: 'So the Paladin can NOT'

 

[hong]

The other thought I had is that you cannot combine the 'overrun' attack with a charge with a Lance. So the Paladin can not do a spirited charge immediately following up in the same round with an 'overrun'. Is this correct?

Of course he can, since to overrun someone, you have to charge them. Check the overrun description in the PHB, p.139. It would go something like this (assuming the defender doesn't have a reach weapon):

1) Paladin moves in a straight line, ending 10' away from the defender
2) Paladin makes attack with lance, doing x2 damage from Spirited Charge feat
3) Paladin continues moving towards defender, provoking AoO if defender survived
4) Paladin moves into defender's square (defender can't avoid because of Trample feat)
5) Mount makes a trip attack as part of overrun; if successful, it gets a free hoof attack (at +4 to hit a prone opponent).

 

[Rashak Mani]

I think there is an example of trample and overrun in the Sword and Fist... Paladin vs Bad guy or is it Defenders ?

 

[reapersaurus]

Trample has been pretty effective for my PC in the non-iconics adventure...

Ubaar is using Trample himself, since he's a worshipper of the Thunderbeast (a brontosaurus) as a domain granted power.

The AoO's hurt, but melee clerics can handle a little damage, right?

 

[Ysgarran]

Re: Re: Trample: Limited Use.

Of course he can, since to overrun someone, you have to charge them.

Hey, thanks. I'm going to have to seriously take a look at a mounted paladin for my next character...

Ysgarran.

 

[Artoomis]

A mounted trample works against your charge target only if you have Ride-by Attack (required for Spirited Charge).

Why?

Because a charge normally must end in the first square in which you threaten you opponent. Overrun (which is how you get trample) is done during the move part of teh charge, which comes before the attack.

Ride-by attack changes the rules so that you move both before and after teh charge attack, so you could move, attack, then move more right through your enemy, using trample.

Worst case is you end up 5' in front of you enemy, prone. Unlikely when mounted - it's generally very touch to succeed in a trip attack against a paladin's mount. The good news is that you would have already successfully attacked.

Would I use Trample? Not unless I really needed to go right through the enemy's square. Normally I'd go right by him, avoiding any AoO and not puttin the mount at risk.

 

[Malin Genie]

Remember, with the Mounted Combat Feat you have a good chance of negating that AoO even if it hits.

Furthermore, you can use Trample quite nicely in certain circumstances even without the Ride-by-Attack Feat.

How, you ask me?

Charge an opponent in the second rank. To get there, you Trample over one of the opponents in the first rank.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

There is NO requirement for a ride-by-attack in the course of an overrun attack.

1) Paladin moves in a straight line, ending 10' away from the defender
2) Paladin makes attack with lance, doing x2 damage from Spirited Charge feat
3) Paladin continues moving towards defender, provoking AoO if defender survived
4) Paladin moves into defender's square (defender can't avoid because of Trample feat)

This however, is wrong. The correct order would be as follows:

1) Paladin moves in a straight line, ending 10' away from the defender.
2) Paladin moves into defender's square (defender can't avoid because of Trample feat) Provoking attacks of opportunity normally.
3. If the Paladin fails - he is knocked off the horse, and falls prone in the defender's square. If He succeeds, He may continue his charge attack into the "second rank" of defenders.
4) Paladin gets their normal attack- using the spirited charge feat if they posess it. This attack could be with a sword against the prone target, with a lance against an opponent in the "second rank" (now in front of the horse) or, if the paladin so chooses, and is able to do so, they may continue their charge forward to the extent of their normal movement.

With a Ride-by-attack, as well as trample; I could choose to make my normal lance or sword attack - and (provided I killed the opponent - proceed to continue My charge THROUGH the opposing line until blocked, without provoking an attack of opportunity.

With only the ride by attack, and not the trample; the opponent may choose to avoid my charge and not fall prone, but he is still directly "in front" of me.

The main reason to have the trample feat is that if I am mounted I can use my ride skill - instead of my str or dex score to cause the trip in the overrun. Odds are, my bonus to a ride check is considerably higher than My str or dex bonus - making it nearly certain that I will trip My opponent; and that my mount will get a hoof attack.