"Transforming" non-OGC material into OGC?

[Yair]

I have heard, once upon a time, that ideas or game mechanics cannot be copyrighted - only their specific implementation can. With this in mind, wouldn't it be possible for someone to release as OGC "closed" mehcanics?
For example, lets look at the bear-warrior PrC from Complete Warrior (non-OGC). Certainy one can....
1. Take the *idea* of a prestige class that allows a warrior to shapechange into a bear, and develop a brand new PrC that implements it.

OR

2. Take the *mechanics* of the bear-warrior PrC, rephrase them so as to change their implementation, and present the same mechanics.

But then, they could also ...

3. Rewrite the PrC, retaining all of the machanics and fluff but not actually copying the origianl text.

So with just a bit of creative rephrasing, you have essentially re-published closed content as open content.

Of course, it will not allow one to release a "Thayan Knight", but it should provide one to create a virtually identical class called, say, "Shield Grog".

Am I missing something? Or is it just too risky to try something that sneaky?

 

[JohnRTroy]

I have heard, once upon a time, that ideas or game mechanics cannot be copyrighted - only their specific implementation can.

This hasn't been tested specifically for RPGs yet.

Since Wizards created the D&D game and the d20/OGL version of it, and since other publishers have to use the OGL format, I assume you would be trying to take from Wizards.

I wouldn't attempt this. They have graciously created the OGL, and have kept cool bits for themselves. Nothing prevents you from playing these in their own private games. If they found out, they could prove a case against you, and abusing the privilage would likely cause problems.

Why not instead support their products, petetion them to release products into the SRD after a certain lead time (1 year or so). I doubt setting-specific stuff would be released, but stuff like Liberous Mortis or Draconomicon, or Vile/Exalted stuff would be nice additions.

 

[Bloodstone Press]

First of all, I am not a lawyer. However, I believe that if your "intent" is to circumvent the law and effectivly engage in criminal activity by attempting to make it look legit, you are asking for trouble.

A good conversation about game mechanics and copyrights is currently going on here:
http://forums.rpghost.com/showthread.php?t=24872

Take the *mechanics* of the bear-warrior PrC, rephrase them so as to change their implementation, and present the same mechanics.

If you change them, they are not the same. I'm not sure how you might change the implementation of a rule without changing the rule entirely.

3. Rewrite the PrC, retaining all of the machanics and fluff but not actually copying the origianl text.

I believe that would fall under "derivative works" clause of copyright law, which prohibits such works without permission.

Your best bet is to forget about the complete warrior for a while. Start with a blank sheet of paper and write up your own ideas about a PrC that turns into a bear (or a better creature). Once you have it written up, compare it to the one in Complete warrior for balance and clarity. I would also make a concerted effort to differentiate my work from the PrC in the Complete Warrior. Not so much for copyright reasons, but rather for creative reasons. You don't want your customers saying "hey, they just stole that PrC from the complete warrior!"

 

[Mokona]

Petition to add to the SRD

I haven't seen a poll about the SRD. Can someone run a poll listing Wizard's D&D books since Core Rules v.3.5 so we can see what would be popular? We can forward the results to WotC. It doesn't seem like the amount of time the material has been on sale is an issue because Wizards has often released SRD material ASAP after the printed book releases.

Complete Warrior
Complete Divine
D&D Miniatures Handbook
Draconomicon
Libris Mortis
Races of Stone
Frostburn
Monster Manual III
Planar Handbook
Unearthed Arcana
Book of Exalted Deeds

I'm not even sure which D20 Modern products are in the SRD. Anyone? Which D20 Modern products should be in the SRD but aren't?

 

[Bloodstone Press]

I'm not even sure which D20 Modern products are in the SRD. Anyone? Which D20 Modern products should be in the SRD but aren't?

Off the top of my head, I believe it is
The Core rules
Urban Arcana
The monster book (menaces-whatever)

 

[SandraWinters]

d20 Future is also in the MSRD now.

So far, the only other Modern book that I can think of that isn't in the MSRD is the Weapons Locker.

 

[JohnRTroy]

I should also point out that some Campaign-Only PrCs ended up in the core rules. When 3.5 game out Archmages and Hierophants were added to the core due to their popularity.

 

[Nellisir]

I haven't seen a poll about the SRD. Can someone run a poll listing Wizard's D&D books since Core Rules v.3.5 so we can see what would be popular? We can forward the results to WotC. It doesn't seem like the amount of time the material has been on sale is an issue because Wizards has often released SRD material ASAP after the printed book releases.

Complete Warrior
Complete Divine
D&D Miniatures Handbook
Draconomicon
Libris Mortis
Races of Stone
Frostburn
Monster Manual III
Planar Handbook
Unearthed Arcana
Book of Exalted Deeds

I'm not even sure which D20 Modern products are in the SRD. Anyone? Which D20 Modern products should be in the SRD but aren't?

I'd like to see Oriental Adventures, myself.

Unearthed Arcana is already OGC, so adding it to the SRD is convenient but not necessary.

Cheers
Nell.

 

[Yair]

I'd like to clarify that I am not a publisher, and do not intend to publish a product commercially. I was, rather, a bit annoyed about not being really able to legally post or use stats from, say CW, even on my private webpage. And then I thought of this possible loophole, more out of frustration than any real intent to implement it on a grand scale.
Also, for the record, I have absolutely no intention of engaging in any criminal activity, nor was I suggesting one. I was suggesting that it may be *legally* possible to circumvent the intention of Wizards to retain their classes, feats, etc. as non-OGC. Emphasis on legally.

Note on implementation: I believe that, for example, saying "roll 1d100, and if it is lower than 26 then..." is the same rule but not the same implementation as "to determine your success, roll a 100-sided dice. On a result of 26 or lower..."
I may be mistaken.

As for the idea of petitioning to enter more into the SRD: I'm all for that, but I believe the rate of stuff entering the SRD is directly proportional to the amount of money Wizards spends doing it. And, for obvious reasons, they are not devoting their entire R&D budget to do so. I believe the only real way to accelerate or affect this process is to pay them to do so. For example, third party publishers can coordinate with Wizards the release of new material to the SRD and products based on that particular content, in return for paying Wizards for their work - paying for the salary of the guy that puts the SRD together, and some extra for the manager's time in looking things over and approving them.
Practically, I don't see such a scenario happening. Third party publishers are having enough trouble earning money without this extra expense. But it would be nice to see all those works in the SRD, oh yes.

And last but not least: thanks for the link, Bloodstone Press!