D&D 5E Transition from Hoard of the Dragon Queen to Rise of Tiamat [Spoilers from the get-go!]

[Ambrose Honeysuckle]

I told you about the spoilers in the subject line. This topic is ALL spoilers. If you don't want spoilers, AVERT YOUR EYES. Go read this webcomic, maybe. It's great.

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So my group is almost finished with Hoard of the Dragon Queen. They smooth-talked Blagothkus into letting them take down the cultists without his interference, took the Red Wizards by surprise and killed them both (Rath Modar tried to escape, to no avail), killed Rezmir and the 10 dragonwings, destroyed Sandesyl and her spawn, and came up with a pretty brilliant way of slaying Glazhael (it didn't go exactly as they planned but worked out in the end). Basically, all the combat is done; from here on, it's all social interaction.

I'm presented with three fundamental problems, in order of importance:

• Where does Blagothkus drop them off?
• What do I do about Rath Modar, since Rise of Tiamat seems to assume that he's still alive?
• What do I do about Talis the White, since Rise of Tiamat seems to assume that she's dead (our PCs struck a deal with her)?

The third of these problems is fairly trivial. The first, on the other hand, is potentially very complicated.

First, the Monster Manual describes cloud giants as deceitful, self-interested tricksters, and Blagothkus is evil. This logically means he can't be trusted to keep his word to the PCs, doesn't it? On the other hand, given that they managed to kill the dragon that was too much of a handful for him and his ogres, he might think it wiser to exercise caution around the PCs. Right now, they're talking about buying him off by letting him keep the bulk of Glazhael's hoard, since they can't even begin to cart it all off themselves. But per the MM flavor text, cloud giants are less interested in quantity than in quality, and the PCs have already grabbed all the good stuff.

Second, Skyreach has to be able to land someplace for the PCs to disembark. If they ask Blagothkus to take them back to Elturel, for instance, that's not really feasible, because the lower part of the iceberg would leave the gate a good hundred feet off the ground -- even the river wouldn't be deep enough to accommodate it. They could probably land it in the Sea of Swords and disembark near Waterdeep, but would a giant want to venture that close to small-folk civilization?

And third, supposing that Blagothkus did insist on flying the castle to the Spine of the World mountains, where in the Spine of the World mountains would his destination be? Neither book seems to say, at least not anywhere I've been able to find.

So . . . the PCs have given Blagothkus peace of mind by removing the possibility that the cult will turn on him, as he suspected they might. Is this enough for him, or will he now turn on them? What incentive could they possibly offer him that could sway him -- what interest does he have that they could appeal to? Cloud giants like to gamble; might he require them to win a bet with him?

And how have other folks solved the Rath Modar problem? I've seen it suggested that the first Rath Modar should be considered only a simulacrum of the real wizard, but that feels like a cheap cop-out to me.

 

[robus]

Spoilers

Similar result for my group: Rezmir and Rath Modar dead. Blagothkus befriended. Azbara Jos alive but a prisoner.

We were in a similar problem (where to land). The party wanted to go straight to the Well of Dragons but Blagothkus was tired of the whole cult thing (he was coerced in our version) and wanted to go nowhere near. He offered to drop them at the nearest city. Descending through the clouds they found themselves above the river leading to Neverwinter so he offered to drop them there which they accepted.

He's going to turn over the prisoners (dragonclaws mostly), the hoard and Azbara Jos to the authorities in Neverwinter.

The PCs will find some way to return to Waterdeep (probably some representative of one of the factions will insist that they report their findings in person to the Council that's been formed).

As for Rath Modar being out of commission I plan on Azbara Jos escaping his captivity rejoining the cult and becoming the "new" Rath Modar of the later chapters (for some delicious "Ah, we meet again..." fun).

In your case, Talis the White could assume the role of Rath Modar in part 2, she's a political climber and this opportunity seems too good to miss for the likes of her? And double-crossing the PCs - that's fun

 

[GuardianLurker]

Heh. In terms on importance to the overall plot, those issues are almost directly inverted, in my opinion.

1) As has been mentioned in the "Enhancing HotDQ" and "Enhancing RoT" threads, Blagothkus' primary motivation is trying to unify the giants. He was hoping to do this through the Cult, in classic "misguided villain" style ("I'll sacrifice myself to lure the big doom down on my countrymen, forcing them to solve their problems to deal with the bigger threat. They'll hate me, but it's all for the Greater Good...") (which come to think of it is a strange view for a CE villain to have. But WotC's Giantcraft (from 2e, good stuff) asserts that the giant's alignment axis are based semi-differently, so this might be an artifact of that assertion.) Well, now the players have established that they're a power, and aimed at the cult - and giants hate dragons (in Faerun at least). So now he has a slightly more attractive lure for unification. And it might even get those troublesome small-folk to leave them (the giants) alone.

In short, you've got the canonical setup for the Jotunmoot scenario. A couple backs and forth with Erlanthar, the party, and Blagothkus, and its off to the Spine of the World to meet the giant leaders for a gab-fest. At that point, where in the Spine isn't really material. Either the characters get a lift back to Waterdeep at the end, or Erlanthar's raven sends them the scroll.

2) Frankly, Rath Modar, as written, isn't really believable as the "rebel leader" against the Lich King of Thay. Pull in a replacement Archmage and make Rath Modar his lieutenant, wash your hands, and call it done.

3) Great! See the RoT threads for how to use and abuse Talis in this position. Save her up, and have her be present at the climatic ritual - after all, Varram needs to be replaced.

 

[akr71]

1) You could have Blagothkus not land until he gets to the Giant Moot (see GuardianLurker's Giant Moot side quest in the RoT thread). As you said, he's selfish and wants the party to get the giants on the same page - selfish doesn't mean stupid - he knows the giants have to get involved and need to cooperate.

2) As above, just find another exiled Thayan (or use his stat block and put another name on it)

3) I plan to re-use Talis as the new White Wyrmspeaker. Varram is disgraced early on it RoT. In fact, I'm working it that Talis is the one that had the mask stolen from Varram in the first place - she's still mightily pissed at being passed over in the first place.

 

[Ambrose Honeysuckle]

Well, I've decided what to do about Blagothkus: The PCs ask him nicely to set them down someplace, and he says, "No." They say, wait a minute, we solved this problem for you, and he says, "Yes, you did. You were useful. And now you are not useful." But your word, man, you gave us your word! "My word? What are you, that I have to keep my word to you? You are small folk. You are nothing." Wait, wait, we've got all this treasure for you! You can have it! "Those meaningless bits of metal? If I wanted those, I would have taken them. Dragons think having a huge pile of shiny things makes them rich. Quality does not lie in volume. Quality lies in craft." Sir, please, surely we can come to some kind of agreement . . . maybe a wager between gentlemen?

[pause]

"A wager, you say?"

[pause]

"Cards or dice?"

 

[Ambrose Honeysuckle]

As for the Rath Modar problem, it dawned on me that my players have inadvertently solved that problem for me already: They never found out the name of either of the Red Wizards they killed aboard Skyreach. One of them (Azbara Jos) was just "the Hooded Man" to them, and the other one, they'd never even seen before. So Rath Modar shows up when Rath Modar needs to show up, and the wizard they killed was just some dude in a robe.

 

[robus]

As for the Rath Modar problem, it dawned on me that my players have inadvertently solved that problem for me already: They never found out the name of either of the Red Wizards they killed aboard Skyreach. One of them (Azbara Jos) was just "the Hooded Man" to them, and the other one, they'd never even seen before. So Rath Modar shows up when Rath Modar needs to show up, and the wizard they killed was just some dude in a robe.

That's a lucky break - sadly they got the name of Rath Modar out of me somehow. Probably Talis told them, bloody Talis... (shakes fist)