5E Transmutation - the ultimate tier 4 buff school?

BlivetWidget

Explorer
While I've seen a lot of Wish/Simulacrum schemes (most of which were never RAI and are no longer RAW after the Simulacrum errata in 2.0), I don't believe I've seen this one specific to Transmutation Wizards. It seems so straightforward that it makes me wonder if I'm missing something. I don't think so, so here goes:

The rules:
~Upon reaching Level 17, the Transmuter gains access to the 9th level Wish spell.
~A living Transmuter can withdraw the power from a Transmuter’s Stone they created by crafting a new one, but in all other ways, a Transmuter’s Stone exists independent of the Transmuter. In order for a Transmuter’s Stone to function, its creator does not need to be present, on the same plane of existence, or even continue to exist in any way. It need only be in a creature’s possession to benefit it.
~Use of the Wish spell allows for the duplication of all spells 8th level and lower instantaneously, with no material requirements, and with no risk of failure.
~A Simulacrum uses all the statistics of the creature it duplicates except that it is a construct, has half the hit points of its original, cannot increase its level or other abilities, and cannot regain expended spell slots.

The implications:
~A Level 17 Transmuter may thus create a Simulacrum of themselves once per day, for free, with a single action.
~As the original in this case is a Transmuter, the Simulacrum can use its Level 6 feature to create a Transmuter’s Stone, a process which takes it 8 hours and costs no resources. It gives this Transmuter’s Stone to its original upon completion.
~The following day, the Transmuter creates a new Simulacrum of themselves. The previous Simulacrum is destroyed, but the Transmuter’s Stone it created remains.
~The new Simulacrum crafts a new Transmuter’s Stone with a different property and hands it to its original.

The result:
~After a total of eight days, the original Transmuter has a bag of Transmuter’s Stones granting them Darkvision, +10 movement, proficiency in Constitution saving throws, and resistance to acid, cold, fire, lightning, and thunder damage. Note they can only use their own Transmuter’s Stone for the Level 14 Master Transmuter feature, but no longer need to rely on their own Transmuter’s Stone for any other benefit.
~Every eight days, the Transmuter can repeat this process to create a bag of Transmuter’s Stones for another party member.
~???
~Profit.


So, am I missing anything, or is this just a commonly-overlooked synergy of the game rules? Thanks for reading.
 

Dausuul

Legend
Yes, this combination appears to work. However, it's just one modest example of the monstrous abuses that are possible with the simulacrum spell, particularly in combination with wish. (The most egregious is probably the one where you have the copy use its 9th-level slot to cast wish into simulacrum targeting the original you; this creates a fresh copy of you with an unused 9th-level slot. You can thus use yourself as a template to stamp out an infinite number of archmages.)

Honestly, I don't know what WotC was thinking with simulacrum. Even setting aside all the ways it can be exploited, even if you just use the spell straight-up as intended, it's utterly broken. Who thought it was a good idea to let a 15th-level wizard double all their spell slots*, and cast two spells per round all day long, for a mere 1500 gp?

*Okay, okay, all but one of their spell slots. Still broken.
 
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dnd4vr

Adventurer
Nope, looks clean to me. :)

Technically, you don't even need to be 17th-level with Wish, But then you are talking 12000 gp worth of simulacrums for that bag of stones. Since it also takes 12 hours to cast simulacrum, you are basically casting it, telling it to make a stone, and then resting to do it again the next day.
 

BlivetWidget

Explorer
Right on, thank you both for double checking me. On occasion, a crazy idea pops into my head that I can't dispel, and I wonder if it's due to misinterpretation or not =)

@dnd4vr and somehow it's still less expensive than making a permanent teleportation circle XD. If we want to go further down the rabbit hole, we can come up with some slight variations, such as the high-level wizard doesn't need to be a Transmuter as long as they have access to a 6th level (or higher) Transmuter... but I was looking for the most self-sufficient route. Could be a way for an NPC Transmuter to reward people working for them, ala faction ranks.

@Dausuul indeed, two of the most powerful spells in the game are allowed to mesh, it's bound to cause shenanigans. I'm sort of surprised the 2.0 errata didn't add something like, "as the Simulacrum has no soul / will of its own, it cannot cast Wish" or somesuch. As good as an effect like eight buffs is, at that tier of gameplay I don't think it ruins anything. Infinite Simulacra, on the other hand, probably does. I think the main balancing factor for the single Simulacrum as a "spell booster pack" is that it can be annihilated with a single casting of Dispel Magic, but I don't disagree that it's still very good.
 

Quartz

Explorer
As the original in this case is a Transmuter, the Simulacrum can use its Level 6 feature to create a Transmuter’s Stone,
The problem with your scheme is that this is still you creating a Transmuter's Stone, albeit indirectly. So you can only have one Stone.
 

BlivetWidget

Explorer
The problem with your scheme is that this is still you creating a Transmuter's Stone, albeit indirectly. So you can only have one Stone.
I appreciate your input, but can you reference anything in the rules that would support this conclusion? A Simulacrum does not share its features with the original, it is a separate creature which duplicates the original's stat block at the time of creation except as noted (like so. See also PHB, page 276).

By your logic, telling your Simulacrum to cast a spell would eat one of your own spell slots because you're "casting a spell, albeit indirectly." That's just not how Simulacrum works.
 

5ekyu

Adventurer
I appreciate your input, but can you reference anything in the rules that would support this conclusion? A Simulacrum does not share its features with the original, it is a separate creature which duplicates the original's stat block at the time of creation except as noted (like so. See also PHB, page 276).

By your logic, telling your Simulacrum to cast a spell would eat one of your own spell slots because you're "casting a spell, albeit indirectly." That's just not how Simulacrum works.
Actually to me it's even more clear. Equipment is not included. So yeah you can mskecextra stones.

I mean, if your simulacra was ordered to craft scrolls. Those scrolls would still exist, tight?

The thing is, by that point, its potent sure but its at tier-4 and using wishes... not really what I would call abusive.
 

dnd4vr

Adventurer
Not at all. 5E is exception-based and it is explicit that you can have only one Stone.
Actually, it isn't explicit at all, that is your implication. All it says is "If you create a new transmuter’s stone, the previous one ceases to function." You aren't creating each stone, the creature/constructs that is a simulacrum is what is manufacturing each stone.

No where does it state you can only benefit from one stone at a time. If multiple transmuters made stones and all gave them to the same creature, that creature would benefit from all of them.
 

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