Trap-disabler Wanted: Optimized halflings need only apply?

[IanB]

The characters both have spent a feat on this, it isn't like he's taking an unfair comparison in terms of resources spent here.

It is also silly to call the fighter a 'dabbler'. Skills don't work like that anymore. If you're trained, you're trained.

 

[Balgus]

That's the problem with the rules allowing for 'helpers' to pitch in. This is an issue in most games. Mostly it simply makes little practical (versimilitudinous )sense, but if the players can come up with good reasons as to how they're helping (vs. just 'I'm rolling, can I help?') more than happy to let them - anything that makes for a good story is a good rule in my book.

That makes sense.. Ina fight, I can see how one ally bobbing and weaving, regardless of their battle prowess can help. Or climbing, when you can help regardless of your athleticism, and strength checks regardles of your actual strength can all help.

but i cant see how someone without skill can help where a trained dissabler is about to fail. But if they can come up with something interesting, or at least give me a chuckle, then I guess I can accept that.

 

[Keltheos]

Ditto.

I guess the (using the list of examples above) eagle-eyed Ranger may use his perception to point out to the Rogue something like "Hey, should that spring be coiled as tightly as it is?" and give the Rouge an extra set of eyes, but just randomly throwing out there that character X can pitch in because the rules say so begs for house ruling.

 

[LowSpine]

LowSpine - an interesting system, it looks like it would solve the swingyness/polarizing issue, as well as having more potential for interesting halfway states.

The only issue I can see is that if the party has ~50% chance to succeed at the checks, and the challenge is significant (6+ states), then it's possible for the challenge to go on indeterminately long, as the party oscillates between high and low without reaching either end.

Perhaps a default end state would solve it - if the challenges runs for a certain number of turns without being resolved, it ends in success/failure/halfway (depending on the challenge).

Thinking about solving that. Perhaps the trap starts at 1 and then makes its way up through the list (or other challenge) each round - as if the trap has its own skills. Then if I make the trap have a better than 50% chance DCs - something like that may work. You will then be actively working against the trap and if you do nothing it gets worse - crushing walls?

If you had a social encounter the 'actively working against' could be a Wormtongue character wispering in the ear of the person you are talking to.

 

[angiloth]

My Skill Challenge system

I came from playing a game called exalted, in which you can get bonuses to your actions by roleplaying them or performing heroic stunts, in which you describe your actions with vivid imagery.


If I'm doing a skill challenge, it will be a challenge in which all the party members can participate, either with an array of skills or a single type of skill.

In the original trap bypassing example, up to four party members can use aid other to add up to +8 to this check. This alone is boring, so I make the party members come up with unique and interesting 'stunts' which depict the manner in which they help.

The fighter may crank back some of the scythes with his spear, rolling a strength or athletics for the +2; the wizard may use his superior intellect and knowledge to draw up schemata based on the magically-altered gears, aiding the rogue; the ranger will use his keen perception and tracking abilities to find signs of passage by the traps designers or caretakers.

However, if a character cannot describe the manner in which they would help, I rule that there is no way to aid---no free +2 skill checks.

If they succeed their skill checks, your measly +12 can quickly become a +20 to the roll. Additionally, if I am overly impressed with their abilities to come up with creative solutions, the dc will lower.

 

[angiloth]

one more thing

one other thing:

In the dmg, the book uses the following as a skill challenge:

PC's are in a jungle. If they succeed 6 times on their skill checks, they find the temple. If they fail 3, they are hopelessly lost.

Failure isn't death. Failure is a detour or a block in the road in which players will have to work hard to get back on track. Devoting a whole session to "you're lost in the jungle" could be really fun.

And I wouldn't give any xp to succeeding the skill challenge unless they deserve it, by really working for their skill bonuses as per the stunting and roleplaying i described.

Don't use a skill challenge just for the sake of an encounter either. If the party has a task to perform, and it ends up being a really extended process with a lot of results, give them exp for a skill challenge, if they managed to use their talents wisely enough to pull off more successes than failures.

If they played it poorly, and had a lot of failures by not thinking it through, or if you had to hold their hand, they probably don't deserve it.

 

[generalhenry]

Optimized halflings need only apply?

bah, optimized kobolds do fine