Traps and Locks without (too much) rogue

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Or should that be rouge.


An exercise for a character I was contemplating.

Lets supose you're trying to build a traps and locks expert. But don't want to play a full class rogue. Obviously, want very high Search and Disable Device... Can't rely on magic for this - anti magic fields abound.

The character should have a useful primary role. Ideally some ability to melee with huge, powerful monsters and/or undead. Preferably without dying.

How would you do this?

The crunchy stuff: 16th level, DMG wealth and these stats - 16, 15, 14, 14, 12, 9. 3.5 Core rules + complete books.

Book of Exalted Deeds is available, but even typing it's name makes me feel kinda cheesy.

 

[Snowy]

Multiclass rogue cleric or rogue wizard theres prestige classes for both in complete adventurer, the rogue cleric would be able to melee, well enough.

I think theres a rogue paladin feat and prestige class that sounds interesting to me but probably need DM approval and help with backstory.

Failing that the rogue barbarian in my campaign is dishing out serious amounts of damage when he gets it right, he's gone for dodge, mobility, spring attack and I think possibly just picked up power attack. Sneak up on someone then sprint out of cover and belt them with a great axe for sneak attack damage then run away before they react.

What sort of beastie are you thinking of playing, as in any preference on race or particular skills or feat you want to use lots or want to try?

 

[Thanee]

Human with good Int, Able Learner and one level of Human Paragon will have all the skills you want.

Then you will need that one level of Rogue or Scout (or whatever else there is) to gain Trapfinding.

That's it, two class levels and one feat, so you have fourteen levels left to do whatever you like.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Snowy - cool. Rogue barbarians sound like a lot of fun - the all round Conan... For some reason, I think a halfling would appeal for that?

Paladin Rogue - think that's in Complete Adventurer - did sound like fun. Sneak attack with a holy avenger has humor value.

To give you the background, this is a backup character concept for a game I'm already playing in. The main party tank is a paladin and I wouldn't want to tread on his toes. Party used to be: Paladin, Cleric, Wizard, Sorceror (me), Archer and Samurai. Unfortunately the Samurai and Archer have moved away and got addicted to WoW respectively. Next week we're baiting an oversized red dragon. Figure PC death is quite likely, I have terrible luck with that and want to have a backup in place!

Pretty happy to play any of the core races, pick feats to match. Sometime I'd like to try out a Minotaur PC - but I think that'd be a seriously bad idea for this character.


Thanee - Thanks! Not got my books with me. What does the first paragon level and able learner do? Permenant class skills kind of thing? IIRC, Paragon is in UA. Where's able learner from?

 

[Thanee]

Able Learner is from Races of Destiny and allows a human to learn cross-class skills for 1 skill point per rank. Because of the way multiclassing works with skills, you only need a single level in any class, which has a certain class skill, to then be able to max that one out, regardless what class(es) you later pick up.

Human Paragon is indeed from UA and you get to pick 10 skills as your class skills plus some other stuff, which is not related to this, but also quite nice.

Able Learner + Human Paragon is a really nifty combination, if you want to add some non-typical skills at high levels to a class.

Of course, now that I think about it... with a single level of Rogue and Able Learner you won't even need the Human Paragon level, since Rogue already has all the skills you'll ever need as class skills (and you definitely need Trapfinding, anyways). Still an option, if you want to go completely without Rogue levels and add a Scout level instead.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Thanks!

Ah! Can the scout trapfind? Interesting?

Guess a Spring attacking type could work well... Their non-union sneak attack equivalent could be fun when it works. Wonder what it combines well with. Tempest, Dervish and/or anything with Lions Pounce could be nasty.

Have to crack out the books this evening and have a trawl through.

 

[rowport]

...Ah! Can the scout trapfind? Interesting?

Guess a Spring attacking type could work well... Their non-union sneak attack equivalent could be fun when it works. Wonder what it combines well with. Tempest, Dervish and/or anything with Lions Pounce could be nasty...

The Scout is a cool class, but some of the abilities are a bit (IMO) tough to utilize.

Specifically, a Scout has Trapfinding, but does *not* have the Disable Device skill (I read somewhere that was an intentional design choice, to force routing around traps instead of 'fixing' them). Using the Human Paragon level to gain Disable Device as a class skill is a clever solution to that problem, Thanee.

The Spring Attack idea for Scout works really well, since he has light armor and needs to stay the heck out of melee if possible, and as a bonus would usually be able to move the 10' minimum to get the Skirmish bonus. Two-weapon fighting would be *really* effective with the Pounce ability to get the Skirmish bonus on both attacks, but then you would be stuck in melee range at the end of your move, so that is a big risk/reward trade-off.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Interesting stuff... That Paragon/Scout combination is sounding good!

How big is the Scouts HD? Would make some difference to their combat ability IME.

Figured it could have some interatcion with Dervish. The dervish dance lets you move and full attack, which could also get messy?

Spring attack and Pounce would be good - allowing some mix and matching to suit the situation... Wonder what ways exist to pounce? Psionic Warrior, Psion with expanded knowledge or 5th+ Druid are the ones I can think of?

 

[Joshua Randall]

Kishi Charger (Oriental Adventures) also gets to pounce.
Lion of Talisid (sp?) from Book of Exalted Deeds might pounce.

 

[Eccles]

Planning the next one before the fight? That's fatalism for you!

(Safe in the knowledge that he always has the 'druid' thing to fall back on).