Travel Domain: Escape a grapple?

[Deset Gled]

I would have to agree that, as written, the ability granted by the Travel domain only works against magical effects; if the effects are non-magical, the ability does not apply, and FoM is not used (despite the fact that FoM normally has uses against non-magical effects).

This is a very nit-picky argument, and this very well may not have been the intent of the passage, but dem's da rules.

 

[~Johnny~]

Even disregarding the balance issue, I'd have to go with Korak on this one. D&D books always strive to convey maximum meaning with minimum text. Why specifically mention magic effects? It would have been easier to say, "For a total time per day of 1 round per cleric level you possess, you can act as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement." The emphasis on magical effects seems salient.

 

[silentspace]

After reading the quote, I also think that the ability only works against magical affects, and not grappling.

 

[drnuncheon]

Dr. N I think your ignoring the rest of the Quote which, I think, takes most guess work out of what they mean.

Not at all. The power says exactly what I sais it did - you are not affected by magical effects as if you were under the effects of freedom of movement.

You are not actually under the influence of a freedom of movement spell, you are merely able to ignore magical effects as if you were. Freedom of movement gives you many things, but the Travel ability only gives you one of them.

Artoomis: sorry, but your dictionary definitions of 'regardless of' don't really change anything I said. 'We continued hiking, regardless of the weather' does not imply that we continued hiking regardless of the deep, impassable chasm in our path.

'Regardless of' means that you do not pay attention to certain things. What do you not pay attention to? Whatever you are regardless of. What are you regardless of? Magical effects that impede movement. Are you regardless of other effects that impede movement? By no means.

If the power had merely said 'regardless of effects that impede' I would completely agree with you. But the word 'magical' was added, and I must assume that it was added for a reason.

What you are essentially saying is that 'regardless of magical effects that impede movement' is treated exactly the same as 'regardless of any effects that impede movement'. Sorry, but I can't see the logical jump there.

J

 

[Liquidsabre]

Right, I agree. Ignore "magical effects" via the Freedom of movement spell and nothing else. The quote states this rather clearly.

 

[Artoomis]

...Artoomis: sorry, but your dictionary definitions of 'regardless of' don't really change anything I said. 'We continued hiking, regardless of the weather' does not imply that we continued hiking regardless of the deep, impassable chasm in our path...

Great example. It also does not mean stop hiking should anything come up other than the weather - like a shoe comes off, for example. The "regardless of" term is not all-inclusive.

'Regardless of' means that you do not pay attention to certain things. What do you not pay attention to? ...

Exactly - you do not pay attention to at least magical things that impede movement. What other things? - That's not stated, but the Freedom of Movement spell makes those clear.

If the power had merely said 'regardless of effects that impede' I would completely agree with you. But the word 'magical' was added, and I must assume that it was added for a reason.

Sure - and that reason could be just for emphasis. Just as in you hiking example above. Obviously, in the hiking example, you did not mean anything more serious than bad weather, but, just as obviously, you meant anything less serious than bad weather as well as bad weather.

What you are essentially saying is that 'regardless of magical effects that impede movement' is treated exactly the same as 'regardless of any effects that impede movement'. Sorry, but I can't see the logical jump there.

J

Not quite. What I am saying is that "regardless of magical effects" implies those plus lesser effects - that is mundane effects. Similar to the weather and hiking example above.

 

[Caliban]

Not quite. What I am saying is that "regardless of magical effects" implies those plus lesser effects - that is mundane effects. Similar to the weather and hiking example above.

I don't think it implies that at all. It says nothing about "lesser effects". To me it implies the domain ability only protects against magical effects. Your deity expects you to handle mundane problems on your own, while he helps you against the magical stuff.

 

[Artoomis]

I don't think it implies that at all. It says nothing about "lesser effects". To me it implies the domain ability only protects against magical effects. Your deity expects you to handle mundane problems on your own, while he helps you against the magical stuff.

I disagree. That's like saying the weather won't stop us when hiking but some tiny mundane thing like a shoe falling off (assuming it can be put back on) might stop us.

The language is not absolute by any means. The language needed to restrict to ONLY avoiding magical means needs to be more specific - something like:

...you can act normally regardless of magical (but not mundane) effects that impede movement... Mundane means of impeding movement such as grappling are still effective.

As written, the language is not restrictive. There is no sort of "only magical impediments are ignored" language. Absent that, the clarification language would be found in the spell Freedom of Movement. Remember that, in general, D&D is supposedly read to favor the defender. In this case, since it could be read either way, the way that favors the defender is to use the spell's language.

 

[Nail]

...As written, the language is not restrictive......

Right....but that's irrelevant. The language doesn't need to say what it does not apply to; the language says what is does apply to. This is typical for 3.5e.

The text says:

"you can act normally regardless of magical effects that impede movement as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement."

So, as a cleric with the domain spell, if there is ever a time that 'magical effects impede my movement', I may act normally. Being grappled is not one of those times, ergo the domain power isn't effective.

It's really pretty simple.

Or another way:

Does the domain power allow you to ignore grapples? .....check text.......nope! Grappling isn't a magical effect, so the domain power doesn't apply. The fact that the spell referenced does include that is irrelevant --> again, because of the "magical effect" clause.

 

[Nail]

What you are essentially saying is that 'regardless of magical effects that impede movement' is treated exactly the same as 'regardless of any effects that impede movement'. Sorry, but I can't see the logical jump there.

Bingo. My thoughts exactly.