Treasure Using Monsters and CR

[maggot]

A pit fiend is CR 20, a moderate challenge for a 20th level party. It has a AC of 40 and saves of +17 to +19. Rough but fair at 20th level. Now it is supposed to have treasure of standard items (plus standard coins and double goods). That could be 1d3 major items: like bracers of armor +8, a ring of deflection +5, and cloak of protection +5. That would increase its AC to 53 and its saves to +22 to +24. Is it still really a CR 20 encounter? Can a 20th level fighter hit that AC reliably (especially with iterative attacks)? Can a 20th level wizard can do much against those saves?

 

[Nail]

Good question.

My impression is that at least some (if not all) of the treasure a creature has should not be used as equipment. Why? This:

Treasure (from Monster section)
This line reflects how much wealth the creature owns. In most cases, a creature keeps valuables in its home or lair and has no treasure with it when it travels. Intelligent creatures that own useful, portable treasure (such as magic items) tend to carry and use these, leaving bulky items at home.

IOW: Yes, use some of the treasure as equiped items, but not all. Don't adjust the CR.

(BTW: The Balor is a wuss at CR 20. He's probably closer to CR 19 or 18....at least according to some of the game designers.)

 

[frankthedm]

On the other hand, don't twink out the monsters with all thier treasure. The CR system doesn't expext the DM to have critters have every slot filled with a magic item.

Though go for that if the Players are really beardy with characters.

 

[Jdvn1]

In practice, I've rarely seen GMs do this for all their creatures. Maybe my games are weird (I've played with a number of GMs, though), but it's just easier to run the creatures just out of the book.

 

[Nail]

In practice, I've rarely seen GMs do this for all their creatures. Maybe my games are weird (I've played with a number of GMs, though), but it's just easier to run the creatures just out of the book.

I do this for practically all of my creatures.

It not difficult, actually. I already have to figure out how much and what type (of treasure) to give the PCs per encounter......all I have to do is let the monster use some (or all!) of it.

 

[diaglo]

I do this for practically all of my creatures.

It not difficult, actually. I already have to figure out how much and what type (of treasure) to give the PCs per encounter......all I have to do is let the monster use some (or all!) of it.

all of the DMs i've seen in the newer editions use the items the monsters have. it is called prep work. and even bad DMs do it.

 

[Nail]

So...are you responding to something I wrote, or just agreeing with me about the ease of doing it?

 

[diaglo]

So...are you responding to something I wrote, or just agreeing with me about the ease of doing it?

agreeing with you.

 

[Nail]

Gotcha.

 

[Targos]

Just keep in mind that a monster's treasure is randomly generated in normal situations. Hand picking these for particular synergies with the monster may not be appropriate. When class levels are involved however I do hand pick items. (I randomly generate the standard treasure for the monster and then hand select the appropriate item(s) for a the class levels.)