Trickster Sweat and Other Material Concerns

[5ekyu]

So, in the 5e game i am playing in, the circumstances are as follows:
Party is on mission through the woods and remote areas, escort duty, diverted path, etc.
Unlikely to see anything beyond dirt poor village for maybe 2-3 more weeks.
Party just leveled to 3rd and the Arcane trickster has to choose spells known including the one "not illusion/enchantment" spell they will have until 8th level.
Trickster wants Find Familiar but, the 10gp special components are simply not here in our little convoy and so if he chooses it he really wont have that spell until we get to a sizable town with ability to find such things. So, does he take a spell he actually cannot cast at the time he has to choose *or* does her take a spell he can cast and delay Find Familiar until 8th (assume no multiclass) - that is the horn he is currently dilemmaing.

trickster player is quite a bit sweating this choice - all things considered and is even now eyeing possibly adding a multi-class wizard level or two later because of this "wait until 8th" speedbump. he had not been considering MC before - and really - its solely for overcoming the 5 level familiar hit.

Similarly, when they leveled up to 2nd, the sorc had Chromatic Orb as a top-shelf candidate but the remote fishing village (thats being generous to call it village) was an obvious "don't even think about it" for having any 50gp diamonds on hand and so they passed for other options that were more "material friendly."

My question to you other Gms and players is - Do you have any house rules, setting features or other ways of approaching material components that make this typical effect on spell selection more or less significant or just noticably different in play.

Obviously, for non-cost, non-consumed components - an arcane focus covers your bases. obviously a component pouch could as well once you got somewhere where the component itself was available (again no-cost not-consumed.)

Have you seen any other cases where "setting" or "surrounding" had as much of an impact on these kinds of selections?

Would you allow a caster to choose a new spell which they literally could not cast at the current time in your setting/environment(how did they practice it?)

just curious how much of an impact you see material components hitting new spell selection at specific circumstances in your games?

Obviously, a house rule limiting level ups to being "in major town" would not see this issue so much.

Meanwhile, its likely the Ranger in the group will at 3rd now dial-up his choice of new beast master animal by morning in the camp.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I don't know if it limited it as much, but they had to make sure to purchase any special components while in town if they were available. So they would make sure to buy 100GP pearls for Identify, and other special things when they would stop in a larger town. So there were times they couldn't take spells due to not having the components but they mostly planned to minimize that.

 

[5ekyu]

I don't know if it limited it as much, but they had to make sure to purchase any special components while in town if they were available. So they would make sure to buy 100GP pearls for Identify, and other special things when they would stop in a larger town. So there were times they couldn't take spells due to not having the components but they mostly planned to minimize that.

Absolutely, once you have sufficient gold quantities and access to large towns etc - it is imperative to plan ahead a lot and stock up.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Find Familiar
PHB
1st-level conjuration (ritual)
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: 10 feet
Components: V, S, M (10 gp worth of charcoal, incense, and herbs that must be consumed by fire in a brass brazier)
Duration: Instantaneous

IMO, it seems a bit stingy to not let the PC find or buy 10gp worth of charcoal, incense, or herbs over the course of 2-3 weeks in game time. I would think even a dirt poor village would have some semblance of these things. Maybe it takes a week or two to gather enough, perhaps requiring Survival checks to find the wild herbs along the way. Make the PC work for it, for sure.

Now, the bronze brazier is another thing altogether. I'd make it possible to find one before getting to the major town, but would likely require several successful Persuasion, Insight, and/or Investigation checks to locate such an item - or maybe the party wizard has the Locate Object spell.

I'm not saying that every desire of the players should be accommodated (for example, I've had requests for very specific powerful magic items - simply not going to happen), but withholding the opportunity to find components for a 1st level spell to maintain setting "purity" is a bit over the top to me. YMMV

 

[5ekyu]

IMO, it seems a bit stingy to not let the PC find or buy 10gp worth of charcoal, incense, or herbs over the course of 2-3 weeks in game time. I would think even a dirt poor village would have some semblance of these things. Maybe it takes a week or two to gather enough, perhaps requiring Survival checks to find the wild herbs along the way. Make the PC work for it, for sure.

Now, the bronze brazier is another thing altogether. I'd make it possible to find one before getting to the major town, but would likely require several successful Persuasion, Insight, and/or Investigation checks to locate such an item - or maybe the party wizard has the Locate Object spell.

I'm not saying that every desire of the players should be accommodated (for example, I've had requests for very specific powerful magic items - simply not going to happen), but withholding the opportunity to find components for a 1st level spell to maintain setting "purity" is a bit over the top to me. YMMV

Yes - one odd thing is for this spell the items that cost seem at least undefinably common (could argue its special incense and herbs not just oregano and potpourri) but it actually looks like the no-defined-cost non-consumed side-item (brass brazier) that is harder to just come across. often the non-cost, non-consumed items get pouched or focused.

trickster was asking - how much does a brass brazier weigh or cost?" as well - being of course your archetype str 8 lightweight.



Tossing in Sage reference RE brazier FWIW

"The 10 gp of other components need to be burned in something, brazier or not."


[FONT=tahoma, sans-serif]https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/07/30/find-familiar-component/[/FONT]

 

[Kobold Stew]

Absolutely, the spell should be available right away. He can know how to cast it, even if he knows he doesn't have the materials with him at the time. He should not have to wait until level 8 to learn the spell.

In my opinion, the only issue is how long you as DM make him wait for the material components. A week or two game time, or before he hits level 4 (whichever comes first) seem to me the extreme lengths he should need to wait. If you are delaying it beyond that, you should ask why that is -- do you not want him to have a familiar at all? If so, ban the spell, but don't make him jump through hoops needlessly.

 

[5ekyu]

Absolutely, the spell should be available right away. He can know how to cast it, even if he knows he doesn't have the materials with him at the time. He should not have to wait until level 8 to learn the spell.

In my opinion, the only issue is how long you as DM make him wait for the material components. A week or two game time, or before he hits level 4 (whichever comes first) seem to me the extreme lengths he should need to wait. If you are delaying it beyond that, you should ask why that is -- do you not want him to have a familiar at all? If so, ban the spell, but don't make him jump through hoops needlessly.

To me its perhaps more to it than just "how long you as a DM want to make him wait."

There is no implied requirement to have material components provided by GM if it's not readily apparent they fit.

Particularly for those with cost. Are diamonds supposed to wash downstream in the woods near cleric's with Revivify?

In the case in question, the PCs chose a longer route to avoid an orc force, decided before they leveled. It was a reasonable decision in the situation but it does serve as part of the timing of level and location.

But the point you bring up, the "you as DM want" POV, is very much a relevant potential issue.

Do you as GM feel obliged to work reliable access to costly material components into the mix of situations and circumstances? What is the longest period (game time or levels) a player should have to be without access to the components for spells? Do you handle some spells differently - diamonds for revivify, resurrection vs diamonds for chromatic orb, or 50 gp diamonds vs 100gp crafted horns? (Not defined by RAW so obviously an "in your games")

 

[5ekyu]

IMO, it seems a bit stingy to not let the PC find or buy 10gp worth of charcoal, incense, or herbs over the course of 2-3 weeks in game time. I would think even a dirt poor village would have some semblance of these things. Maybe it takes a week or two to gather enough, perhaps requiring Survival checks to find the wild herbs along the way. Make the PC work for it, for sure.

Now, the bronze brazier is another thing altogether. I'd make it possible to find one before getting to the major town, but would likely require several successful Persuasion, Insight, and/or Investigation checks to locate such an item - or maybe the party wizard has the Locate Object spell.

I'm not saying that every desire of the players should be accommodated (for example, I've had requests for very specific powerful magic items - simply not going to happen), but withholding the opportunity to find components for a 1st level spell to maintain setting "purity" is a bit over the top to me. YMMV

Just the most fiddly bit... the spell requires all three "and". Your "stingy" references not letting them find "or".

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I used to just say scratch off the cash for special components and we will say you bought it, but kept running into the party using cash they just found in the dungeon and paying for stuff they would have bought in town, and it got cheesy so I switched it and said remember to stock up when in the city. Plus I want an element of logistics in the game. And if you are based out of Dirtburgh and expect to buy expensive diamonds...good luck with that. Gives a good excuse to take a break from the dungeon, travel to Greyhawk, and have some different adventure for a few sessions.

 

[Blue]

As a DM, my approach would be a bit orthogonal - I wouldn't give a player an ability that could not be used for a large number of sessions in this manner.

In other words, one of the dirt poor towns would have a bronze brazier - perhaps they need to win it in a drinking contest. The rest I'd let them find / buy - at a cost in terms of how much progress they are making on their trek. (Slowdowns to have the ranger hunt up herbs, detours to go to areas with some specific ones. Charcoal is easy - it's not coal, it's burnt wood. Maybe they need to spend a day "purifying" it or whatever to justify whatever you'd spend 10gp on.

From a design space, a martial component is a way to disarm a caster much like other characters can be disarmed. Expensive material components are supposed to be a limit on the amount of castings as well.

I have no qualms with characters expending resources (time, add'l risk from beasts) vs. a shop transaction that has the same result.

And there's nothing saying I'll give multiple castings - they might get one, get the 1 HP familiar, and be really careful with it until they can get to a place to purchase more material components.