Trickster Sweat and Other Material Concerns

[Kobold Stew]

But the point you bring up, the "you as DM want" POV, is very much a relevant potential issue.

Do you as GM feel obliged to work reliable access to costly material components into the mix of situations and circumstances? What is the longest period (game time or levels) a player should have to be without access to the components for spells? Do you handle some spells differently - diamonds for revivify, resurrection vs diamonds for chromatic orb, or 50 gp diamonds vs 100gp crafted horns? (Not defined by RAW so obviously an "in your games")

THe benchmark I gave is what I feel is reasonable:
* a character with resources working for a week or two (travelling to a better town; finding a mine, or whatever) should be able to find access to any moderate material component (not necessarily a 1000gp gem, but a 100gp one no problem).
* a player making a design choice should be able with effort to accomplish that outcome within a level. (And so, if a character wants to retrain a skill, I say don't use it for the current level, and the next time you level up, you can have something different.)

Because a player should be able to have the character they want. If I don't want them to have a familiar (hypothetically), I should just say that outright, and not make it an in-game ordeal, when it wouldn't be for another character at the same level in another circumstance.

Now at the same time, a character might learn the spell and not work to get the material components. They shouldn't fall into his lap, but they should be reasonably available in the game world.

 

[Shiroiken]

I have had various components become available if a character levels away from town, usually as a form of treasure, but always in a way that makes sense. In the original situation, the party could come across an old hermit who lives in the woods, who would own charcoal, incense, and herbs, along with a brass brazier they could use (but not keep) in exchange for 10 gp worth of supplies.

The best example of this was in the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun, when our bard got the divination spell. It requires an amount of special incense, which she didn't have. They found some incense in the strange temple, which she kept for the spell. What she didn't realize, is that her divinations were now directed to Tharizdun (CE god of insanity), who subtly tried to corrupt her soul. She figured it out, and used the incense sparingly, until they could get back to town and get incense dedicated to a non-insane/evil god. Eventually this led her to multi-classing into cleric for Tritheron (CG god of Liberty).

 

[Hawk Diesel]

I'm sorry, I know this is slightly off topic, but did anyone else click on this thread hoping to have a discussion on how the Sweat of a Trickster could be used as a material component for spells/magic items?

 

[5ekyu]

I have had various components become available if a character levels away from town, usually as a form of treasure, but always in a way that makes sense. In the original situation, the party could come across an old hermit who lives in the woods, who would own charcoal, incense, and herbs, along with a brass brazier they could use (but not keep) in exchange for 10 gp worth of supplies.

The best example of this was in the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun, when our bard got the divination spell. It requires an amount of special incense, which she didn't have. They found some incense in the strange temple, which she kept for the spell. What she didn't realize, is that her divinations were now directed to Tharizdun (CE god of insanity), who subtly tried to corrupt her soul. She figured it out, and used the incense sparingly, until they could get back to town and get incense dedicated to a non-insane/evil god. Eventually this led her to multi-classing into cleric for Tritheron (CG god of Liberty).

I tend to agree and I would also be inclined to have some opportunities to acquire material as part of story - treasure off beauties or when aiding others favors etc. Especially if it could tie an optional encounter side mission to a PC background.

There are great many ways to work it in, if, the gm is inclined to do so or even aware of the issue.

 

[Eltab]

If your PCs are too poor to use their new abilities and are going to stay too poor for a long time, you as DM are building a faulty world. How do other budding magic-users keep from being driven into the wilderness and killed?
I like the suggestions upthread about borrowing / searching out the expensive material components.

Maybe you should have your PCs "get lost in the woods" and discover a town that DOES have the small gems and other manufactured things they need to cast their spells &c. Perhaps they accidentally followed a ley line (or other magical handwavium-powered method) and travelled farther than they thought?

 

[5ekyu]

If your PCs are too poor to use their new abilities and are going to stay too poor for a long time, you as DM are building a faulty world. How do other budding magic-users keep from being driven into the wilderness and killed?
I like the suggestions upthread about borrowing / searching out the expensive material components.

Maybe you should have your PCs "get lost in the woods" and discover a town that DOES have the small gems and other manufactured things they need to cast their spells &c. Perhaps they accidentally followed a ley line (or other magical handwavium-powered method) and travelled farther than they thought?

"How do other budding magic-users keep from being driven into the wilderness and killed?"

I would suggest that some, maybe quite many, dont avoid getting killed in the wilderness. I would also suggest some, maybe quite many, dont fo out for long stints into the wilderness.

Mainly, I would suggest that the events and travails of the PCs are not representative of the world at large and judging an entire world as faulty based on the transient events of one group seems a bit... off.

Consider, the case in question involved getting find familiar early not later and whether chromatic orb chosen at second or not - neither of which to me seems to be "if not, how do you survive?" cases. The trickster could take false life or burning hands or magic missle... all seem to be viable if "not getting killed" is at issue. Magic missile instead of chromatic orb seems perfectly viable as a choice at 2nd level in small fishing clutch and swap it out at 3rd or whenever you get the diamond.

I am on the side of "make it work out" but do we need to paint this as life and death extremes? Does that help?

 

[Harzel]

If fidelity to the setting really precludes obtaining certain components, and that is really the only issue, I see no harm in the DM inventing alternate material components for the spell. If the player has immersed themselves in the setting sufficiently to make a plausible suggestion about alternate components, so much the better.

 

[Eltab]

I am on the side of "make it work out" but do we need to paint this as life and death extremes?

The original situation as I understand it is that the DM has created a high-poverty world, which prevents the PCs from accessing many of the options they would normally expect to be available (every spell that requires expensive material components), and is not adapting his game to correct those mistakes.

I don't mind asking a few sharp questions. Because it isn't hard to see a future where that group breaks up because the DM's world nerfs their characters' abilities.

 

[5ekyu]

The original situation as I understand it is that the DM has created a high-poverty world, which prevents the PCs from accessing many of the options they would normally expect to be available (every spell that requires expensive material components), and is not adapting his game to correct those mistakes.

I don't mind asking a few sharp questions. Because it isn't hard to see a future where that group breaks up because the DM's world nerfs their characters' abilities.

This was the situation i described in the OP.

"Party is on mission through the woods and remote areas, escort duty, diverted path, etc.
Unlikely to see anything beyond dirt poor village for maybe 2-3 more weeks."

The impact was that the party had been and was again leveling up out there in the wild and at least for the 2nd level sorc and now 3rd level trickster the availability of pricey component in the circumstances was playing a significant role in their choices - the worst for the trickster since the third level choice of non-ill/ench is actually a rather big thing due to the particulars of his class.

thats a far shot away from the way you seem to have taken it, right?

But absolutely the point is valid that there are a lot of setting choices that can impact severely character abilities - potentially without noticing.

But in this case, while there are issues now worth considering and absolutely if the availability of items grows to be a longer ongoing thing questions about "how do you want this to work" will need to be asked, it is by no means anything close to the extremes of group splitting up or even any discussion around that.

I can speak for my sorc directly and have had plenty of convos with the trickster and more at the curious, maybe concerned than at the more extreme reactions.

then again, its not uncommon on these forums to see threads about Gms choosing to restrict access to certain spell components at all. not sure those games reach crisis points.