Trip and Stay down

[Camarath]

If by "prone" you simply mean "lying on the ground" then I agree with you, it is pretty pointless. If, however, as some folks feel, "prone" includes "standing up from prone", then it is indeed, quite advantageous to trip. My point was actually to show how silly the arguement is that if it's not explicitly denied in the rulebook you then should be able to do it. Common sense and reason must step in somewhere.

I feel that the state of prone does not end untill the end of the Stand Up action. If you have an option and no rules deny you the option I do not see why you shouldn't be able to use it. So by common sense and reason I can not entangle a foes limbs or cloths throwing them off balance if they are already prone? If this is wise is another question but I see no practical concerns with being able to "trip" an already prone character.

Can Unlucky drink his potion while prone? If so, then he can drink the whole potion and gets the full benefits, even if he is tripped. The trip interrupts his action, but I don't see why he can't finish it.

I view Standing Up the same way.

Can Unlucky keep getting up from prone after he's been tripped while trying to get up from prone? That seems a little unreasonable. At least, not without using up another move action to so so.

I can find no clause in the rules that says that a trip will end this action. It may go aginst comon sense in some cases but so does getting hit repeatedly with out serious injury and disability. You could look at it as the AoO happens not when the charcter rises but wile the are still on the ground when they must tense their entire body to being standing process.

If you think it is reasonable, then clearly, tripping someone who is using their move action to move 30 ft. through your threatened space allows them, paradoxially, to keep moving to the full extent of the 30 ft. mark after you successfully trip them as part of their original action. I haven't read any rules explicitly preventing this, but do you feel that this is within the spirit of the trip attack?

In this case your action is interrupted and your state is change to prone and thus do to the in movement options wile prone your orginial action is now impossible to complete. I no not believe that your state would change during the Stand Up action and that even if it did it would not stop you from completing the action.

In my games, if you can perform whatever it was you were attempting to do while being tripped while standing or while prone, then the action is completed after the AOO triggered trip is resolved.

Since no one has given a rule based reson for why one would not be prone untill the end of the Stand Up action. Wouldn't the character be by your own assertion prone at the time of the AoO?

 

[sithramir]

I think people who say you can trip while standing from an AoO aren't seeing the AoO as it was truly meant to be. It does happen BEFORE they are getting up. Not while halfway there. BEFORE it. Thats how an AoO works it interrupts flow and happens before it. So yes he was still prone at that point. The AoO isn't a "i see him standing I attack him" because thats a normal round attack. Its more of a hitting him while he's down kind of thing.

You can say either way. But by saying its the othe rway anyone with improved trip is just plain god. I trip you. You can't get up or crawl away because both incur Attacks of opportunity.

Crawling can't work because you still have to use something to move yourself. I'll just make my AoO to trip whatever part he's trying to crawl with. Just doesn't make sense that way.

Yes it makes no sense that he can't trip someone while they are getting up with an AoO. But by the rules theres no "halfway up" so therefore it can' thappen. He'd still be prone when the attack hit. In real life its not true but this isn't real life. In order for it to be that way you are changing how the rules are which is fine in your game but isn't how the rules are written.

He was still prone when hit so herefore couldn't have been tripped. Makes no sense but thats "by the book".

 

[Caliban]

There is no halfway state in between prone and standing up.

Sure there is. It's called "kneeling" and gives a +2 on melee attacks and a -2 on ranged attacks. Exactly half the prone modifiers.

 

[Camarath]

Sure there is. It's called "kneeling" and gives a +2 on melee attacks and a -2 on ranged attacks. Exactly half the prone modifiers.

That is true but the Stand Up action takes you strait from prone to not prone.

 

[Caliban]

That is true but the Stand Up action takes you strait from prone to not prone.

Does it? How sure are you about that?

If I hit you halfway between lying down and reaching a standing position, you wouldn't be kneeling?

That doesn't really make sense.

Of course, I don't think it matters much one way or the other, since it's a touch attack to initiate the trip attempt.

And I do think that by the rules, you can indeed interrupt someones action and end the action, whether it's spell casting, moving, or standing up.

 

[Enkhidu]

If the Stand Up action goes through the Kneeling state, it certainly doesn't say so in the rules: therefore, you must decide when the person standing up is no longer prone.

If it is at the beginning of the action, from the moment the Stand Up is declared, the AoO will send the victim back to the ground with a successful trip. If it is at the end of the round, then no trip attempt can be made (because the victim is not yet considered "not prone"), though other AoO types may be applied.

 

[Locpik]

I may be wrong... But, the AoO is triggered by the start of the action..(standing up)..( he put his hand down to try to stand up)... he is not up yet, so the +4 to attack counts, but it would be a waste of an attack to trip some one who is not standing...

another way to look at it... lets say you can trip him with the AoO and you knock him to the ground again.. Would it not be a full-round action to try and stand up again? ( you can not get an AoO mor then once on any one person, per round.... ) your standing...

The +4 is to hit... It does not count for the str.

 

[Caliban]

If the Stand Up action goes through the Kneeling state, it certainly doesn't say so in the rules: therefore, you must decide when the person standing up is no longer prone.

Of course, the rules also say nothing about not being able to trip a prone person.

If it is at the beginning of the action, from the moment the Stand Up is declared, the AoO will send the victim back to the ground with a successful trip. If it is at the end of the round, then no trip attempt can be made (because the victim is not yet considered "not prone"), though other AoO types may be applied.

If you are moving and I trip you, your movement is ended.

If you are spellcasting and I hit your, your spellcasting might be ended (pending concentration check).

If you are standing up and I trip you, you standing action might be ended (pending trip attack resolution).

It seems pretty simple to me, and in the spirit of the rules, given the existing precedents.

 

[Waldo]

you can not get an AoO mor then once on any one person, per round....

This isn't true in 3.5. You may not take more than one AoO for one trigger. One trigger includes all movement within one opponent's threatened space.

But standing up twice would provoke two AoO.

 

[Enkhidu]

Well I'll be snookered, Caliban - it really does say nothing about tripping a prone character. And you know what? It also doesn't say anything about not being able to move normally while prone. It gives Crawling as a possible action, but doesn't say that's the only way for a prone character to move... Go figure...

Truthfully, I'd Rule 0 this situation to be that a person who is standing up is actually Kneeling by the time the AoO happens. It makes more sense to me that way, and fits with the idea that AoOs interrupts an action in progress.