Trip Attacks: Limited to specific weapons?

[LokiDR]

I don't think so. I think that attacking unarmed is the reason there is an AoO. I infer that from:

Unfortunately, that is far from clear. Does Improved Unarmed negate the AoO from making a trip attempt as well as the AoO from striking unarmed? The only way I could say that for sure would be if the description of IUS included the "tripping weapon" phrasing.

 

[kreynolds]

Unfortunately, that is far from clear.

Unarmed attack - AoO
Armed attack - no AoO
Trip without weapon (unarmed) - AoO
Trip with unarmed attack - AoO
Trip with tripping weapon - no AoO (it's armed, IT not required)
Trip with unarmed attack and IT - no AoO

Seems pretty simple to me, unless I missed something.

 

[LokiDR]

Unarmed attack - AoO
Armed attack - no AoO
Trip without weapon (unarmed) - AoO
Trip with unarmed attack - AoO
Trip with tripping weapon - no AoO (it's armed, IT not required)
Trip with unarmed attack and IT - no AoO

Seems pretty simple to me, unless I missed something.

Trip with unarmed attack and IUS but no IT - ?

Is an unarmed attack considered the same as attacking with a tripping weapon? I know you are considered armed, but that isn't the same thing as a tripping weapon.

 

[dcollins]

Are trip attacks limited to the weapons that indicate you can trip with them in their entry in the equipment section (of the PHB)?

Yes. The trip action by default is an unarmed action. The language used in the tripping weapons descriptions indicates that without it, you could not make a weapons-based trip attack. This has been confirmed by the Sage more than once.

The Sword & Fist example is in error -- Shaez could certainly make a trip attack, just not with a rapier.

I checked the D&D FAQ, and I was surprised to find that apparently no one has asked this before. And maybe its clear to everyone but me....

You're not alone. As you'll see, this topic creates inflamed disputes every time it comes up.

 

[kreynolds]

Trip with unarmed attack and IUS but no IT - ?

Is an unarmed attack considered the same as attacking with a tripping weapon? I know you are considered armed, but that isn't the same thing as a tripping weapon.

Well, you can't trip without a tripping weapon in 3.5, and because you can trip with an unarmed touch attack, it must be considered a tripping weapon. I look forward to seeing what the rules actually state though. I can easily see a lot of confusion if the relevant passages are not carefully worded.

 

[LokiDR]

Well, you can't trip without a tripping weapon in 3.5, and because you can trip with an unarmed touch attack, it must be considered a tripping weapon. I look forward to seeing what the rules actually state though. I can easily see a lot of confusion if the relevant passages are not carefully worded.

But that is just it: you normally do a trip attack as an unarmed attack, not an armed one.

When are those 3.5 books coming out again. I am getting sick of saying "wait and see".

 

[kreynolds]

Oh I see what you're saying now.

 

[LokiDR]

Re: Re: Trip Attacks: Limited to specific weapons?

Yes. The trip action by default is an unarmed action. The language used in the tripping weapons descriptions indicates that without it, you could not make a weapons-based trip attack. This has been confirmed by the Sage more than once.

The Sword & Fist example is in error -- Shaez could certainly make a trip attack, just not with a rapier.

Your indication is only an implication. It is not supported by the sections on trip attacks.

Sage reply (that didn't make it to the FAQ) vs a published example in a printed WotC book. This was never errta'd or FAQ out of Sword and Fist. I will side with the published book by default. Can you cite the full Sagee reply along with Dragon issue?

I don't let people make trip attempts with non-tripping weapons, but that doesn't mean I think this is what the rules say. If nothing else, they are contradictory.

 

[Spatula]

Is the AoO in addition to the AoO for attacking unarmed without improved unarmed, I wonder.

Unless 3.5 is changing the ruling that you can never make more than 1 AoO per person per round, it doesn't matter. Aside from the ambiguity concerning whether those who are 'armed' when unarmed still suffer the trip AoO.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Unless 3.5 is changing the ruling that you can never make more than 1 AoO per person per round...

It is.

-Hyp.