Tripping

[Hypersmurf]

I don't believe so, unless you drop the two weapons first as a free action. One can't make unarmed melee attacks while holding two weapons; the exception being the monk who can always make unarmed attacks regardless of what he's holding.

Do you have a source for that?

Unarmed Attacks: Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon...

Is there a statement that a non-monk cannot strike for damage with a kick or headbutt while holding a longsword and shield?

Now, an unarmed trip is not striking for damage, but if I can make an unarmed attack for damage while holding a longsword and shield, why not an unarmed attack to trip?

-Hyp.

 

[Liquidsabre]

If you wield a second weapon in your off-hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon.

The way I'm reading this right now, the only way you can get the extra attack using TWF is by attacking with a weapon in your off-hand. Be it a weapon or an unarmed strike, both need to be held in the off-hand in order to qualify for the extra attack.

 

[jeffman]

Need a trip weapon

If wielding two trip weapons, you can make two trip attempts per round with each of them

If a monk, you can make two trip attempts per round with unarmed strikes with flurry

If nonmonk, you can make one trip attempt per round with unarmed strikes (since you don't have flurry)

If wieldling two nontrip weapons, you can make one trip attempt per round with an unarmed strike (since the weapons you are weilding are not tripping weapons)

(I'm assuming someone with a BAB less than 6)

 

[Legildur]

Is there a reason you couldn't take the 'fighting with two weapons' penalties and get two unarmed trip attempts (whether holding non-trip weapons or not)?

 

[Ferrix]

Is there a reason you couldn't take the 'fighting with two weapons' penalties and get two unarmed trip attempts (whether holding non-trip weapons or not)?

No reason at all. You can take the fighting with two weapon penalties when unarmed, you do happen to have two legs with feet, two arms with hands, a head and a whole body to which it all attaches. Heck, if I were going to trip someone unarmed, the last thing I would be doing is using my hands as my primary tripping mechanism, your body weight is a lot more effective at it.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Is there a reason you couldn't take the 'fighting with two weapons' penalties and get two unarmed trip attempts (whether holding non-trip weapons or not)?

Because you can't fight with the same weapon twice.

Would you allow a player to start off with a shortsword in one hand, make a full attack with it, then switch it and make their off-hand attacks?

 

[Liquidsabre]

If wieldling two nontrip weapons, you can make one trip attempt per round with an unarmed strike (since the weapons you are weilding are not tripping weapons)

Though I could still see it being reasonable for a guy wielding a shortsword in their off-hand and using his fist (still holding the shortsword), making an unarmed melee attack (provoking an AoO) and using it for a second trip attempt.

 

[jeffman]

Bunnies like Carrots

Though I could still see it being reasonable for a guy wielding a shortsword in their off-hand and using his fist (still holding the shortsword), making an unarmed melee attack (provoking an AoO) and using it for a second trip attempt.

Yes, the rules say you can use an empty hand with TWF. I didn't address this particular situation. However, you could still only trip with the empty hand (unarmed strike)

He could be holding the shortsword in his off hand and a carrot in his primary hand and still make an unarmed melee attack (and thus trip) if he doesn't attack with either of the weapons in his hands (a carrot has a reach of 5', btw)

 

[Ferrix]

Because you can't fight with the same weapon twice.

Would you allow a player to start off with a shortsword in one hand, make a full attack with it, then switch it and make their off-hand attacks?

So you are saying that your body is classed as a single weapon. Hrm... two feet, two hands. I can wear two gauntlets and get two attacks with twf, why can't I not wear two gauntlets and get the same exact attacks with my bare hands?

Get me a rules quote

If you were willing to say such a ridiculous thing about being unable to say, hit someone with the left hand, then hit them with the right as a means of two-weapon fighting, maybe I'd be willing to back up a player who took the twf penalties with his lone shortsword, attacked with it and tossed it to his off-hand and finished with an off-hand attack.

 

[Legildur]

...However, you could still only trip with the empty hand (unarmed strike)...

Not strictly true. From the PHB glossary we have an unarmed strike as a 'successful blow .... from a character attacking without weapons.'

A trip attack relies on an 'unarmed melee attack' (specifically an unarmed melee touch attack) (PHB p158), which is different to an unarmed strike (which specifically deals damage, PHB p139).

Also from the PHB glossary, an unarmed attack is 'a melee attack made with no weapon in hand.'

So, if you rule that a character can take the penalties for TWF and make two unarmed strikes in the round, then there appears to be no difference in allowing two unarmed attacks (for a Trip attack) under the same circumstances.