D&D 5E Troubleshooting slow narrative? (ToA, spoilers)

Quickleaf

Legend
It seems like Mezro should house a significant clue that the source of the curse is in Omu (and perhaps reveal its location relative to Mezro?) Perhaps there's a cool relief map of Omu there with some terrible symbol over the location of Omu? (I'm thinking Indiana Jones style reveal of the location of the Lost Ark?) Or perhaps the gods of Chult give indicate that the sickness permeating Omu has is origin deep under Omu?
Yeah, there’s a prophecy in Mezro (taken from Ruins of Mezro:

When the Soulmonger grinds,
and exiled Nsi wraps himself in serpents,
Death’s curse will grip the world,
From beneath the forbidden city.

The party’s guides suggested “Forbidden City” was mythical Omu, but the guides don’t know where it is.

Edit: as an aside I found all the secondary plots in ToA to be annoying (when reading through the adventure) there's enough cool stuff going on in Chult without the need for Rings of Winter running around etc etc.

Understandable, it’s not handled in an integrated way in ToA.

[SBLOCK=my approach] I’ve added a bit of lore in my game wherein the atropal has an identity as an exiled prophet of Mezro named Kyuss who was seeking out the Ring (being one of a few evil beings who could command it utterly). Acererak isnt raising the atropal Kyuss to be a new god; instead Acererak is soul draining the atropal in order to turn himself into Au death itself, effectively making all undead his phylactery! So I’m tying together the whole myth of Dendar the Night Serpent eating the sun with a supernatural wintery apocalypse & the “age of worms.” Artus Cimber is slowly succumbing to the ring’s evil, and it’s trying to drive him to put the ring in this ancient ziggurat of Kyuss in order to prematurely awaken Kyuss from being soul-drained by Acererak.[/SBLOCK]
 

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Relating to the thread on players playing "Face" characters who don't have those skills in real life, the same can be said about players who play "Detective" characters. In which case, you could ask for an Investigation check, which, if successful, you explain that the character has pieced something together from the tiny clues they have picked up, then tell them what their character has deduced.
 

Dan Chernozub

First Post
Love your posts as usual Quickleaf.

May take might not work for your game, but for ToA it is, provided how big the world around the PCs is, to make things happen that would effect the PCs and give them more opportunities and subtly guide them towards the clues.

For example, if after 10 sessions and, I guess a few weeks of in game time, you party has accomplished anything of note and has some jungle credit, Stormfang might seek them out proactively to help her with her problem with the whattheirnames of Firefinger. If they tell her of their quest and ask her the right questions and help her, she can lead them to Saja N’baza.

Obviously, for this to work if the PCs have done something she would and that reasonably incentivise her to approach them proactively. But I hope you get the idea, with a truckload of NPCs in the adventure, at some point PCs are bound to do somethimng that will cause someone to act in a way that effects the PCs. They can be approached for help, threatened, attacked, there might be a manipulation attempt or a dozen other things.

In short - make them see consequences of their actions and choices & don’t let them feel as they are the only force that is in motion.
 

Quartz

Hero
Hand-waving / rail-roaring is certainly a possible measure of last resort. Don’t think I’m quite in that desperate of a situation yet. There are other players in the group who would likely react negatively to such a last resort move also.

Then perhaps you might increase the rate of levelling to get them there faster.
 

ArwensDaughter

Adventurer
Another technique I used for clues was communication with their sponsor/quest giver. I didn't use Syndra Silvane. Instead, I replaced her with the Seer from the SKT AL modules. My party knew her from those adventures, so there was a lot more incentive for them to help her. The Seer has a pseudodragon familiar, named Hsing, who was also part of the SKT modules; So once or twice he's shown up either with questions from the Seer (to remind them of the urgency of their mission) or with additional info/clues.
 

GMMichael

Guide of Modos
Sorry for not knowing my ToA but. . .

. . . with a truckload of NPCs in the adventure, at some point PCs are bound to do somethimng that will cause someone to act in a way that effects the PCs.

Can you include the tried-and-true opposing band of adventurers? The ones who get there first, and then gloat about their progress at the friendly, local tavern?

Also, I wonder if the bored PC is the type that you could appease by adding more character development for him, since the plot isn't developing much.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
Love your posts as usual Quickleaf.

May take might not work for your game, but for ToA it is, provided how big the world around the PCs is, to make things happen that would effect the PCs and give them more opportunities and subtly guide them towards the clues.

For example, if after 10 sessions and, I guess a few weeks of in game time, you party has accomplished anything of note and has some jungle credit, Stormfang might seek them out proactively to help her with her problem with the whattheirnames of Firefinger. If they tell her of their quest and ask her the right questions and help her, she can lead them to Saja N’baza.

Obviously, for this to work if the PCs have done something she would and that reasonably incentivise her to approach them proactively. But I hope you get the idea, with a truckload of NPCs in the adventure, at some point PCs are bound to do somethimng that will cause someone to act in a way that effects the PCs. They can be approached for help, threatened, attacked, there might be a manipulation attempt or a dozen other things.

In short - make them see consequences of their actions and choices & don’t let them feel as they are the only force that is in motion.

Thanks Dan! That strategy of having NPC quest/clue-givers come to them is certainly something I can incorporate more down the line. What I’m noticing with this group is they’re very detail oriented. Which is great because it keeps me on my toes, but it does have a shortcoming in that sometimes their focus goes in multiple directions and they end up moving far slower than they or I expect. We’ve covered 8 Days game time after playing for 10 sessions.

Then perhaps you might increase the rate of levelling to get them there faster.

Yes, I am leveling them a bit faster now after checking with group. But that is a separate issue that doesn’t impact quickening the narrative toward Omu. And it doesn’t really “solve” the hexploration, it just recognizes the hexploration as the weaker part and mostly bypasses it.

Another technique I used for clues was communication with their sponsor/quest giver. I didn't use Syndra Silvane. Instead, I replaced her with the Seer from the SKT AL modules. My party knew her from those adventures, so there was a lot more incentive for them to help her. The Seer has a pseudodragon familiar, named Hsing, who was also part of the SKT modules; So once or twice he's shown up either with questions from the Seer (to remind them of the urgency of their mission) or with additional info/clues.

That makes sense. I did something similar with a magical map one of the PCs had crafted & they gave to Syndra Silvane, allowing her to contact them with project image using the map as a focus. During the exploration I’m also planning on including a cracked sending stone in a t-rex footprint, a stone formerly belonging to the Company of the Yellow Banner which they used to communicate with Syndra until losing it when a t-rex chased them. It will allow PCs to communicate with Syndra on their terms for a limited time (maybe 20% cumulative chance per use of falling apart).

Sorry for not knowing my ToA but. . .

Can you include the tried-and-true opposing band of adventurers? The ones who get there first, and then gloat about their progress at the friendly, local tavern?

I do plan to include foils/rivals. ToA is a bit more difficult to do this because it’s a deadly adventure, and the foil of dead PC A might not be a good foil for new PC B. My approach, which I’ve only barely gotten to scratch surface of, is to introduce little glimpses of potential rivals via other explorers/Red Wizards/Zhentarim/etc. Hopefully at least one of these can be developed into a genuine rival once they’re in Omu, Fane of the Night Serpent, and/or the Tomb.

Also, I wonder if the bored PC is the type that you could appease by adding more character development for him, since the plot isn't developing much.

I had an open dialogue with him and there were multiple points I picked up from it.

The first and biggest complaint was the vagueness of the mission & lack of clues toward what is causing the Death Curse / how to stop it. Currently I’m looking at detailing the crafting of the Soulmonger artifact (at least somewhat), and using that as a guideline for clues. This is where I could use help.

Secondarily was a complaint about not enough reward vs. risk — this is the level advancement pacing that I mentioned upthread (as well as not much treasure), both which I’m responding to by accelerating level advancement to 1/four sessions & including more treasure (easy enough). Btw, these were issues that I checked with others in the group, and most of the players agreed they were issues. The treasure issue may partly be due to many of the players coming from a Pathfinder background which, as I understand it, is a magical loot abundant game.

Thirdly was a mild complaint about zombies. There have been three fights involving a fair number of zombies, and their Undead Fortitude has been major PITA for the players, and perhaps it has been a bit discouraging to face such hard to kill monsters in light of the above two complaints. To my credit, in each zombie encounter I’ve included some “trick” allowing circumventing the zombies’ hit points, for example: (1) pit traps zombies could be lured into, (2) holding a line vs. zombies till a NPC finished casting gaseous form on the party, and (3) using zombies to solve a deadly puzzle-trap during parlay period with wight necromancer disguised with magic. While I like “zombies as puzzle/challenge” rather than “zombies as mooks to kill”, later on I may introduce a magic item or charm which bypasses Undead Fortitude.

Fourthly was a mild complaint about PCs not driving the narrative, and the party going from lore dump to lore dump without a sense of direction. Because I haven’t heard this complaint from other players (indeed at least one other has really enjoyed how deep I’ve gone with lore of Chult), I’m inclined to think this is just a passing issue brought about by a combo of the above complaints & urrently the party exploring the Mezro Library & College of Wizards which, as you’d expect, have lots of hidden lore. However, my friend’s comments brought to light a challenge I have with this group...despite that we’ve connected most of the PCs to ToA via backstories (e.g. lizardfolk shaman who lost Semuanya’s visions when touched by Acererak in his dream, grung seeking to save her mate Blurble from the Death Curse, Ranger reclaiming ancestral lands from undead after forced to kill his zombified wife) most are playing some shade of give-me-reason-to-care-neutral. While I have a good read on what each player enjoys most about D&D, figuring out their PC’s motives and then successfully incorporating that into ToA in interesting and mutually supportive ways has been a challenge. Maybe I’m just rusty at DMing.
 
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Jackdaw

First Post
I just started running ToA (6 sessions in) and I'm anticipating the same issue with my players. Chult is a good setting but the mega-plot hooks do not collect into any sort of compelling thread. "There be evil over yonder" should not be the driving thematic force of a modern published D&D campaign, imo.

Some ideas I'm building out, which others may find interesting. Warning, this is a bit of a brainstorm.

A) The Death Curse is more specific than a vague defilement and usurpation of resurrection magic. It's actually connected to diamonds that are the required components of most of these spells. It's not a coincidence that, despite their portfolios and mysteries, almost gods accept diamonds as payment for a life returned. It's due to a sacred contract made long, long ago between ancient pantheons and Ubtao, who supplied the archetypal, platonic diamond that bound the gods to accept any diamond of worth "as it were this one".

The circumstances of the arrangement require development (gotta write it) but Ubtao is a trickster god surrounded by trickster gods, deception was definitely involved. When Ubtao abandoned Omu he left the platonic diamond, assumed safe (or maybe he doesn't care). When Acererak found it he used its tie to those resurrected via the contract to feed the Soulmonger and shake things up. After the adventure concludes the platonic diamond will likely be destroyed and the payment of resurrections in Faerun will become as unique and varied as the gods granting them.

B) Two other diamonds are sisters to the platonic diamond, cut from the same vein. They were turned into jewels for Omu royalty and high priests. Though they probably didn't know of the existence of the platonic diamond, they knew that the gems glowed when within a certain range of Omu (actually the platonic diamond beneath it) and each other, and that they could be used in resurrections without being consumed in the process. All diamonds mined in Chult have stronger metaphysical connection to the platonic diamond than those mined elsewhere in Faerun. Perversely it allows people resurrected with Chultan diamonds to suffer the Death Curse longer before dying.

C) The Omuans abandoned the city, destroyed all the maps and melted the coins but that was only 200 years ago (7 generations) A diaspora from a major trade hub wouldn't cleanly cover its tracks even with a major coordinated effort to do so, likely organized by the fallen clerics of Ubtao. Coins would be in circulation outside the city's ability to reclaim, maps would be made and owned by foreign traders, artwork and books/scrolls would have been sold and owned by non-Omuans.

Add to this that Omu is surrounded by three volcanoes. They would have figured prominently in religion, folklore and art. They would have been threaded into worship and commerce.

Add to this that a maze is the sacred symbol of Ubtoa, suggesting a predilection for pathfinding and puzzles.

So... Omuan coins still pop up in modern commerce. Most modern Chultans don't recognize them, thinking they're just coins from the variety of lands that visit Port Nyanzaru for trade. Some however regard them as cursed and will not accept them. These people are the plot hook to families that still have a cultural memory of Omu. One of these families has one of the sister diamonds too. Maybe it's one of the Merchant Princes? Anyway, if you know Omu is somewhere between the three volcanoes and you have a sister diamond, it leads you to the lost city.

D) The Death Curse comes in two parts. Dying, then returning as an undead agent with the goal of seeing the Soulmonger ascend. Syndra Silvane perishes as an ally and returns as an enemy attempting to thwart the entire mission. Most NPCs who succumb to the curse in Faerun have no idea of it's origins, but a few probably do and would make interesting cameos as they showed up in Chult all 'dark side'. Undead Volo? Undead Blackstaff? Adjust CRs accordingly.

E) The Red Wizards hire the Zhentarim as mercenary allies to form a party, equal to the number of PCs. Their goal is to provide a safe circle/anchor for Szass Tam to teleport deep in the tomb, once the other dangers have been removed. He wants to look upon the Soulmonger with his own eyes and make his own appraisals. Maybe this group gets one of the sister diamonds and the PCs the other, so they know when each group is (relatively) nearby?
 

Quickleaf

Legend
Further thoughts on the Soulmonger’s crafting as a guideline for clues I can give players...

The Soulmonger is an enormous (20’ high, 10’ diameter) crystal cylinder resting on adamantine struts over a lava pit. It is a necromantic artifact created by Acererak with the aid of 3 Night hags who adapted the techniques for fabricating their “soul bags” on a greater scale. It absorbs souls. In ToA this is the souls of the dead, preventing them from attaining afterlife and from being resurrected. I’m also adding that it is also slowly affecting unborn souls, causing precipitous drops in fertility - this makes it not just a eschatalogical problem, it just a problem for nobles/adventurers who can afford resurrection, but a problem for everyone.

Based on its location underground and it’s vulnerability to radiant damage, it’s safe to say one of the clues might be “must be in a sunless place.” Additionally, since it’s hanging over a pool of lava, perhaps another clue is “must be near a great energy source.” A vague clue, but one that might make sense in combo with other clues. Finally, since Omu is a dead city (Acererak killed everyone, more or less), another clue may be “must be near where many died.” This clue *could* lead PCs erroneously to Valley of Lost Honor (where Ras Nsi massacred Eshowe tribe), but that is pretty close to Omu geographically, so not too much of a red herring.

Reading the night hag’s description, it says “soul bags” must be crafted from skin of a living creature. So...what if a crystalline creature was “skinned” to make the Soulmonger? That’s an interesting idea, but what monsters fit that bill? Well, there are Geonids in the Snout of Omgar (acc. to The Tortle Package). And there is/was a topaz dragon off the SW coast of Chult, acc. to some 3e book (Draconomicon probably). Flail snail might fit, but looking at its artwork that might be a stretch to go from iridescent shell to crystal. Will have to think on this one more...

Adamantine might have some property - ultra-hardness? - making it uniquely suited to supporting the Soulmonger. This clue could learn PCs to investigate the adamantine mine Hrakhamar. Dwarves can report their parents had been enslaved by Omuan queens, and dwarves can give general idea of Omu’s location. Because Hrakhamar connects to Wyrmheart Mine (red dragon Tzindelor’s lair), PCs could also parlay with red dragon for info about Omu’s precise location (which dragon has seen flying overhead).
 

Jackdaw

First Post
I read through the thread - I think I missed the part where you say who/what knows how to create a Soulmonger and would pass along that information to the PCs.
 

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