True 20 - Is it really Simpler?
- Thread starter iwatt
- Start date
Wrathamon
Adventurer
I agree with DnDChick... try the rules out as written before any houserules to the mechanics.
Conviction must be driven into the players (remind them to use it) till they grow use to the idea this simple mechanic really helps change the lethality to a more heroic game.
I use tokens to represent the effects of damage to help ease the bookkeeping of penalties.
I also make have the players mark down the DC of the weapon damage so it is already added up for speeding up that portion of play.
If you feel the game still isnt feeling the way you like it to try minor changes first.
The game is really easy to balance with a few minor changes if you want it to feel diffferent.
Changing the base DCs for Toughness saves by a point or two is a huge difference in feel, as is, adding or taking away conviction points.
* my only two houserules, so far is I changed the Lucky feat by adding in the player must spend a conviction point to activate it and removing the conviction point ability to mimic a feat the player doesnt have.
I have been tinkering with a benefit for reach and two handed weapons but I havent tried it out in play yet.
Conviction must be driven into the players (remind them to use it) till they grow use to the idea this simple mechanic really helps change the lethality to a more heroic game.
I use tokens to represent the effects of damage to help ease the bookkeeping of penalties.
I also make have the players mark down the DC of the weapon damage so it is already added up for speeding up that portion of play.
If you feel the game still isnt feeling the way you like it to try minor changes first.
The game is really easy to balance with a few minor changes if you want it to feel diffferent.
Changing the base DCs for Toughness saves by a point or two is a huge difference in feel, as is, adding or taking away conviction points.
* my only two houserules, so far is I changed the Lucky feat by adding in the player must spend a conviction point to activate it and removing the conviction point ability to mimic a feat the player doesnt have.
I have been tinkering with a benefit for reach and two handed weapons but I havent tried it out in play yet.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Rodrigo Istalindir said:
Interesting comment. For my money, damage saves is far closer to realism than hit points ever can be, and that is the reason I DO like it
Cheers
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iwatt
First Post
Skywalker said:
You're right about that. At first I'd read it as also been cumulative the same way tougness penalties are.
There still is a death spiral effect in the fact that loosing actions and defense because of injuries will lead to additional strikes from the enemy. The warrior core ability is awesome though
For my money, anything that makes my players (and consequently my onw) lives easier is better in my book. For simplicities sake I might consider removing the -2 due to the wounded condition, and just keep the toughness ablation as the only bookeeping. Other potential HRs I may use will be to remove the parry option (I think it makes sense, but I refer you guys to my first post about my players...), and nerf Lucky to +1 to all saves. Most of my Houserules come from trying to simplify things.
But I'll probably take DnDChick's advice and play according to the RAW first.
Jack Morgan
First Post
Plane Sailing said:Interesting comment. For my money, damage saves is far closer to realism than hit points ever can be, and that is the reason I DO like it
Cheers
I like it for this reason, and because I think once you're familiar with it- it IS simpler, but like all game mechanics it takes getting used to. I just think it stings a bit more here for some, because we're ALL accustomed to hit points already; up unitil recently it was pretty much one mechanic you could almost always count on changing very little from game system to game system.
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DnDChick
Demon Queen of Templates
I think part of the problem is familiarity with d20.
True20 is built on largely on recognizable rules from d20, but is just different enough, especially where combat and damage are concerned, as to add a bit of a re-learning curve. Differences in rules have blindsided a few of my players and even me when we actually went to look them up. Once those differences are known and understood, True20 does reveal itself to be a lot faster.
I do find my players taking more risks in combat, and in general acting out a bit more during a fight because there isn't this constant worry about provoking AOOs or worrying about not being able to do something because they are out of actions. Because of the simplicity of the rules and the open ended character design, the players can be a lot more easy going and free-thinking with what they want their character to do in a given situation. It also opens the game up for me behind the screen, as its a lot easier to adjudicate things on the fly or snap together a quick NPC without having to nitpick with class skills, class abilities, and whether or not he could really have that feat at his level, etc.
For me and my group. True20 is the d20 rules we like, with injury rules that are "realistic enough" without being "instant kill every time," and without the constraints of a rigid class system and the need for combat-slowing tactical thinking in order to avoid AOOs. (Although we do still use miniatures, but really only as placeholders to show where everyone is in combat relative to the terrain and each other).
True20 is built on largely on recognizable rules from d20, but is just different enough, especially where combat and damage are concerned, as to add a bit of a re-learning curve. Differences in rules have blindsided a few of my players and even me when we actually went to look them up. Once those differences are known and understood, True20 does reveal itself to be a lot faster.
I do find my players taking more risks in combat, and in general acting out a bit more during a fight because there isn't this constant worry about provoking AOOs or worrying about not being able to do something because they are out of actions. Because of the simplicity of the rules and the open ended character design, the players can be a lot more easy going and free-thinking with what they want their character to do in a given situation. It also opens the game up for me behind the screen, as its a lot easier to adjudicate things on the fly or snap together a quick NPC without having to nitpick with class skills, class abilities, and whether or not he could really have that feat at his level, etc.
For me and my group. True20 is the d20 rules we like, with injury rules that are "realistic enough" without being "instant kill every time," and without the constraints of a rigid class system and the need for combat-slowing tactical thinking in order to avoid AOOs. (Although we do still use miniatures, but really only as placeholders to show where everyone is in combat relative to the terrain and each other).
barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
I posted on my True20 experiences in my Dino-Pirates of Ninja Island thread. I'm a convert.
Yes, working the Damage Track is fiddly. But I created a 9th-level spellcasting unique NPC in TWENTY MINUTES -- that's from concept in my head to complete stat block written and formatted. Seriously. That sold me, right there.
The game runs FAST, I find -- combats go by quick, players make decisions faster (the options are less without multiple attacks) and the whole thing is just geared towards high-flying fun. As a DM you have to make a few more off-the-cuff rulings, but I like that.
I DON'T use a battlemap with True20. Somehow it seems inappropriate.
For those who are interested, I have a revised character sheet and a set of fill-in-the-blanks NPC blocks for in-play use (so you can track Damage on NPCs) on my website.
Yes, working the Damage Track is fiddly. But I created a 9th-level spellcasting unique NPC in TWENTY MINUTES -- that's from concept in my head to complete stat block written and formatted. Seriously. That sold me, right there.
The game runs FAST, I find -- combats go by quick, players make decisions faster (the options are less without multiple attacks) and the whole thing is just geared towards high-flying fun. As a DM you have to make a few more off-the-cuff rulings, but I like that.
I DON'T use a battlemap with True20. Somehow it seems inappropriate.
For those who are interested, I have a revised character sheet and a set of fill-in-the-blanks NPC blocks for in-play use (so you can track Damage on NPCs) on my website.
bento
Explorer
I ran my second night of a True20 one-shot (there's a paradox!) and the players noticed how much more roleplaying we're doing. Combat goes by faster and they are more willing to try skill attempts during combat like bluffing or acrobatics than they were in D&D 3.5.
They are really enthusiastic when I told them I was re-starting my Oriental Adventures game from last year using the True20 rules. I've already crafted 7 new "roles" based on the OA classes found across many of the "Complete" books by WoTC.
I have one player though that's still holding firm that D20 / 3.5 is a better set of rules. I think it's the subtle shift just mentioned about going from hit points to damage tracking. He also thinks that he'll be losing something if his character doesn't have those dang class feats at every new level. I told him not to worry and if he wants to build his next character (a monk) using the class in the PHB that we can do so with the True20 system. If there's a feat in D20 that's not in True20, we'll look making one up.
He's going to play and I'm not going to push True20 as the end-all-and-be-all of systems. But I think he'll come around with more play.
-bento
They are really enthusiastic when I told them I was re-starting my Oriental Adventures game from last year using the True20 rules. I've already crafted 7 new "roles" based on the OA classes found across many of the "Complete" books by WoTC.
I have one player though that's still holding firm that D20 / 3.5 is a better set of rules. I think it's the subtle shift just mentioned about going from hit points to damage tracking. He also thinks that he'll be losing something if his character doesn't have those dang class feats at every new level. I told him not to worry and if he wants to build his next character (a monk) using the class in the PHB that we can do so with the True20 system. If there's a feat in D20 that's not in True20, we'll look making one up.
He's going to play and I'm not going to push True20 as the end-all-and-be-all of systems. But I think he'll come around with more play.
-bento
jaerdaph
#UkraineStrong
One of the True20 message boards users (Aazlain) posted this excellent PDF for tracking damage and understanding damage tracks:
True20 Damage and Recovery for Dummies
Here's the original thread:
http://www.true20.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=270&highlight=
And DnDChick/True20Chick recently reposted this helpful info over there as well:
True20 Damage Clarification
True20 Damage and Recovery for Dummies
Here's the original thread:
http://www.true20.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=270&highlight=
And DnDChick/True20Chick recently reposted this helpful info over there as well:
True20 Damage Clarification
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