True Sorcery question

Banshee16 said:
This is what I was confused by....the rules in BCCS didn't clearly state that the Insight bonus overlapped.

It doesn't necesarily need to. Standard operating procedure for D20 states that named bonuses -- like an "Insight" bonus -- do not stack with other bonuses of the same name, except in a very few, very special circumstances.
 

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Pbartender said:
It doesn't necesarily need to. Standard operating procedure for D20 states that named bonuses -- like an "Insight" bonus -- do not stack with other bonuses of the same name, except in a very few, very special circumstances.

Hmm....the stats for all the NPCs in the book are off then. None of their Magic Use skills are correct.

Banshee
 

igavskoga said:
Banshee, as to your questions, I haven't messed around with TS or BCCS in a little while (busy and all that) but your description of baleful polymorph as blending shapeshifting and destroy seems creative to me and I don't see why you couldn't make it work.

Alternately, you could forgo doing damage with Destroy and have the Destroy aspect alter stats to those of whatever you are polymorphing the target to since Shapeshift allows you to retain your own ability scores regardless of form. Essentially using Destroy to break down the target's own physical consistancy so that it becomes, entirely, that of the desired creature.

I personally would be tempted to add an extra DC cost to make it permanent and/or non-dispellable - Or have a certain damage threshold you needed to hit with Destroy in order to make it permanent, otherwise it is a timelimit in rounds/hours/days/whatever - there is a lot you could do with it. This falls into the realm of creative tinkering, definitely. :D A lot would entirely depend upon what kind of DC you're looking at to begin with. Blending tends to skyrocket DC's, so it may be sufficiently high just by virtue of that alone.

I'll try working out a few simple examples tonight, and try posting them. There is still the factor that the base Shapeshift talent can only be used on a willing target. But if it's being blended with Destroy, and Destroy allows an unwilling target, and Destroy serves as the base effect since it has the higher base DC, then I'd figure that this would also overrule the target of the spell...

There must be a way to do it. The system seems pretty flexible, and the Silver Spike or one of the early books has Croaker threatening another character that he'd have Goblin turn the victim into a toad, so it must be possible.

I suspect that the "willing target" aspect and short duration of the base effect is partly because they want to avoid the party spellcaster turning the party fighter into a fire giant for stat bonuses...but that also means you can't turn that enemy fighter into a mule.

Someone in a thread months ago had suggested using the "Slay" talent, which is what gave me the idea of using "Destroy" in the first place.

Banshee
 

Banshee16 said:
Someone in a thread months ago had suggested using the "Slay" talent...

That was me. :D

The reasoning was that Baleful Polymorph spells effectively "kill" the opponent by reducing them to a mechanically harmless and useless creature.
 

Banshee16 said:
Hmm....the stats for all the NPCs in the book are off then. None of their Magic Use skills are correct.

Banshee

That's not necessarily true.. The BCBS has a *ton* of synergy bonus interactions, all of which do stack, IIRC. There is at least one skill and one background that give a bonus to Magic Use, and there's the Skill Focus: Magic Use feat too.

As an example, take Arkana:
+15 skill ranks +4 Int bonus (Magician's Apprentice) +4 Cha bonus +3 Skill Focus (magic use, wizard) +2 Skill Focus (Academician) +1 Skill Focus (Academician) +2 Synergy (knowledge:arcana) +8 Insight Bonus (Magnitude) = 39. She's listed as having a Magic Use of 37, which means she did not put the maximum possible skill points into Magic Use...
 
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Tarek said:
That's not necessarily true.. The BCBS has a *ton* of synergy bonus interactions, all of which do stack, IIRC. There is at least one skill and one background that give a bonus to Magic Use, and there's the Skill Focus: Magic Use feat too.

As an example, take Arkana:
+15 skill ranks +4 Int bonus (Magician's Apprentice) +4 Cha bonus +3 Skill Focus (magic use, wizard) +2 Skill Focus (Academician) +1 Skill Focus (Academician) +2 Synergy (knowledge:arcana) +8 Insight Bonus (Magnitude) = 39. She's listed as having a Magic Use of 37, which means she did not put the maximum possible skill points into Magic Use...

Is there any equivalent to Skill Focus (Academician), or even an Academician skill in True Sorcery? Seems to me that if there is not, True Sorcery spellcasters won't have a hope of getting their Spellcraft skill as high as the Magic Use skill of Black Company casters..

Plus, True Sorcery doesn't have the backgrounds, so one of those two spellcasting ability modifiers will be lost as well.

I'll have to go home and take a look tonight, as I don't have the book here with me.

I'm just trying to figure some of this out.

Banshee
 

Pbartender said:
That was me. :D

The reasoning was that Baleful Polymorph spells effectively "kill" the opponent by reducing them to a mechanically harmless and useless creature.

I'm looking for something a bit more flexible. I've never really liked Baleful Polymorph, as I find it too limiting. Part of the problem is that in order to prevent abuse, they've changed the essence of the spell. In 2nd Ed. it was still a character killer, because of the personality aspect of the spell. Baleful Polymorph still does that, but limits the spells from being used to do all kinds of neat stuff, like turning an opponent into a horse, or a bugbear to be sent rampaging into a village, or doing "cosmetic surgery" via spell etc.

Much fantasy fiction provides other uses for the magic....FR in particular, which seems to really like having wizards turn peasants into rampaging monsters, turning deep gnomes into hook horrors, etc., or Voyage of the Dawntreader, which had one of the children get turned into a dragon, or one of the Belgariad novels where a wizardess turned the queen of a nation into a giant anaconda etc.

I figured using "Destroy" could do that. Maybe blending with Slay instead, could do that as well. I don't recall why I changed my focus.

Banshee
 

Now Goblin:
+15 skill ranks, +4 Int bonus (Magician's Apprentice, +5 Cha bonus, +3 Skill Focus (Magic Use), +2 Synergy Bonus (Knowledge:arcana), +8 Insight Bonus (Magnitude) = +39... he's listed as having +37.

One-Eye:
+20 skill ranks, +2 Cha bonus, +2 synergy (Know:arcane), +8 Insight (magnitude) = +32, and he's listed as having +27.

Raven:
+3 Cha bonus, +2 synergy (K:A), +4 Insight (magnitude), +3 Skill Focus (magic use) = +12 and we haven't even gotten to skill ranks yet. Raven is listed as having +18 for Magic Use, so 6 skill points and you're there.
 

While it's true that True Sorcery doesn't have the Backgrounds or the Academician character class, in True Sorcery a lot of the base DCs of Talents were lowered from the Black Company versions.
 

Tarek said:
While it's true that True Sorcery doesn't have the Backgrounds or the Academician character class, in True Sorcery a lot of the base DCs of Talents were lowered from the Black Company versions.

Thanks for your help. I'll take a look tonight. This is something I had wanted to ask about, and without the books in front of me, I couldn't really know for sure. I hadn't been sure whether the base DCs had been lowered.

Banshee
 

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