True Strike Items

Kraedin · Dec 17, 2002

What? When I say "use-activated", I mean the sort of item where you use it and gain the benefits, such as a girdle of giant strength.

MerakSpielman · Dec 17, 2002

What most people who start talking about a True Strike item really want is an automatic +20 to all their attacks. No activation nonsense - it's always active, even for multiple attacks. This reaches into the realm of Epic.

Most people don't realize the first time they read the spell True Strike that they have to wait until their next turn to take their attack. Their eyes boggle at the incredibly powerful spell they have found. Then they re-read it or somebody explains it to them and they sigh understanding. But that lure of +20 to attack, whenever and wherever you want lingers in the back of their mind....

Question: Can you make a wand of True Strike that you can cast on somebody else? Like have a henchman use the wand on you every turn before you attack? Or would that be a new, different spell? What level would a spell have to be for it to grant somebody else +20 on their next attack?

Kraedin · Dec 17, 2002

Or would that be a new, different spell? What level would a spell have to be for it to grant somebody else +20 on their next attack?

IIRC, John Tweet once said it would be about 4th or 5th level, but I have no idea where I saw that.

kreynolds · Dec 17, 2002

Kraedin said:
What? When I say "use-activated", I mean the sort of item where you use it and gain the benefits, such as a girdle of giant strength.

What you 'mean' is fine, but I was pointing out that there is a huge difference in the rules, so what you say in a rules discussion is important. There are multiple options in regards to time consumption with activating a use-activated item, and which one is used can greatly effect the power and usefulness of just about any magic item. Like I said, the problem I see is that many people just assume 'free action' or 'not an action' with the use-activated method, when those are definately not the only options.

Kraedin · Dec 17, 2002

In my post, I gave my opinion on spell-trigger, command-word, and use-activated items. Why would anyone in thier right mind assume that I would price a use-activated item that was activated as a standard action using a command word as being two thousand times as expensive as a command word item?

That seems rather odd.

plavi · Dec 17, 2002

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
I have to disagree. The multiplier is 2,500 for an insight bonus to attack. The weapon also ignores most forms of concealment, so that costs extra.

Anything over 200,000 gp could get multiplied by a lot, and becomes an epic item.

Ah yes, I was quoting by heart anyway. It was just as an example to be used anyway. I have done away with all the crazy rules from the DMG, and if somebody wants to create a magic item with an always-active power I just give each power a certaint equivalent bonus (like +1 or +2), add it all up and this nice and easily discourages every player from doing silly things.

It came in handy when a similar thread was started by me, about a player who wanted a permanent Protection From Evil, with of course the argument it was just a first level spell. Yeah right.

So +2 AC, +2 saves, immunity to mind control and immunity to outsider attacks.... together a +5 or so, which is 5 squared * 1000 = 25000 gp at least. You may even uppen the price for different bonusses or something, but it was fine by me since I run a low magic, low gold campaign anyway.... hey, what can I say, I'm an evil DM...

Luck with your rulings though!

Regards

kreynolds · Dec 17, 2002

Kraedin said:
In my post, I gave my opinion on spell-trigger, command-word, and use-activated items.

You didn't indicate whether or not the command-word had unlimited charges or 50 charges. There's a difference. You didn't indicate whether or not the use-activated had unlimited charges or 50 charges. There's a difference. You didn't indicate whether or not the use-activated was 'not an action', 'free action', or 'standard action'. There's a difference.

Without any indicated specifics, your post threw me for a loop. I'm not trying to be insulting, but you seemed to be making a lot of assumptions while being very nonspecific at the same time. It's hard to see your point of view when I don't have a reference to base it on.

Kraedin said:
Why would anyone in thier right mind assume that I would price a use-activated item that was activated as a standard action using a command word as being two thousand times as expensive as a command word item?

I have no idea, thus the reason for my first reply to you. You didn't specify how long it would take to activate the use-activated item, and judging by your pricing, you appeared to assume 'not an action' or 'free action', without taking into account that other options are available. In effect, you assumed the worst when it's not the only choice available to you.

It seems that most people assume the worst (use-activated, not an action or free action) because they either overlook the other options or they are unaware of the other options. Basically, your post wasn't very clear to me, so I was trying to figure out where you're coming from.

Artoomis · Dec 17, 2002

kreynolds said:
You are assuming use-activation as a free action, and that is not always the case. There is a huge difference between use-activated (free action) and use-activated (standard action). Most of the misconceptions regarding this topic are because of a failure on many people's parts to take this into account.

When you step back and take a look at the options available, a use-activated (standard action) True Strike item isn't that bad at all. At high level, it's only really useful when you absolutely must make that one shot, like when you want to shoot down a chandolier with your bow, or carefuly fire an arrow with a note attached next to someone. It has many utilitarian purposes. At low level, say when you only have one or two attacks per round anyway, its great.

It certainly is not as nasty as a use-activated (standard action) Heal item.

Activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not even an action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves committing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item’s activation is subsumed in use and takes no extra time, use activation is usually not even an action.

Always good to quote the rules on this sort of topic.

But note that there is no price difference between a use-activated (standard action) item and a use-activated (no action) item.

Then again:

1. Item prices are only guidelines.
2. If this were a no-action use-activated type item, then it should probably be priced out by the bonus it grants, not by spell level (because it's not the same as the spell anymore).

As a use-activated item I think it would be VERY expensive.

(Bonus^2 times some multiplier) - insight is not listed in the DMG, but if we assume 2,500, then it would be:

(20^2)*2,500 or 1,000,000 gp. Whew!!

On the other hand, if it worked exactly like the spell, it would only be 6,000 gp. (3rd level caster, 1st level spell = 1 x 3 x 2,000 = 2,000). I suppose it could be done as cheap as 2,000 g.p. if powered only as a 1st level caster.

I don't know how the bow got priced out as costing only 1,500 for the True Strike part. Odd.

(It's worth noting that no errata on the bow has been published.)

Kraedin · Dec 17, 2002

You didn't indicate whether or not the command-word had unlimited charges or 50 charges.

Unlimited use items, such as the amulet of the planes, folding boat, or boots of levitation do not have listed numbers of charges. Unlimited use is the default assumption. This is not any more vague than the DMG.

You didn't indicate whether or not the use-activated had unlimited charges or 50 charges.

See above.

Without any indicated specifics, your post threw me for a loop.

I bet the DMG gives you all sorts of problems.

I have no idea, thus the reason for my first reply to you.

Then why make the most ludicrous assumption available?

kreynolds · Dec 17, 2002

Kraedin said:
Unlimited use items, such as the amulet of the planes, folding boat, or boots of levitation do not have listed numbers of charges.

You're right. They don't. However, you were talking about a custom item. Custom items have many options available. You didn't specify which.

Kraedin said:
Unlimited use is the default assumption.

Is it now?

Kraedin said:
This is not any more vague than the DMG.

Its completely vague. The DMG states what options are available in regards to activation time, methods, and charges. You defined only a fraction of these.