True20 Darwin's World

[Vigilance]

Caveat: I love RPGObjects and their d20 Modern books are more core than WotC's d20 Modern books in my games. They are one of the best RPG publishing companies out there.

With that said, I have to admit I'm a little disappointed to see that DW goes against the basic tenant of True20 - all you need is a d20. I'm more surprised Green Ronin allowed that in their approval process as well. I saw RPGObjects' explanation at GR's True20 forums that some things in DW just wouldn't convert without using other dice. I accept that, but I also think it is a little weak as an argument. I'm not convinced it couldn't be done. Was it more a question of deadlines and schedule? In retrospect, was Darwin's World a bad candidate for True20 conversion?

I'd love to hear your thoughts. Either way, I still think you guys are one of the best publishers out there.

It never occured to me not to just translate things directly.

I never expected anyone to notice, or care that they would have to roll a d6 or a d4 for radiation damage and medical incompatibility.

Is it really that big a deal? You think GR should have not approved the book? That it might be a bad candidate for conversion? Cause it uses a d4 and a d6 on two tables?

 

[jaerdaph]

It never occured to me not to just translate things directly.

I never expected anyone to notice, or care that they would have to roll a d6 or a d4 for radiation damage and medical incompatibility.

Is it really that big a deal? You think GR should have not approved the book? That it might be a bad candidate for conversion? Cause it uses a d4 and a d6 on two tables?

A lot of effort went into making True20 a game where all you need is a single d20 to play. The fact that all you need is one d20 to play has been a major part of the promotion of True20 by Green Ronin. I'm not saying it is wrong, just odd. I'm 100% sure it is completely playable too. From your description above, it sounds like the need to roll a d6 or d4 isn't as integral as I initially thought and could be reworked somehow to rolling just a d20 too. My concern about Green Ronin's approval process was that they didn't ask to have that portion changed, based on how True20 works with just a single d20. Perhaps they just didn't see it - I know they are busy over there with the Freeport relaunch.

Believe me I'm not trying to condemn an entire book over it, nor do I think Green Ronin should. Like I said, you guys do great work, and I'm sure the book is far more in line with True20 than a simple table.

 

[Vigilance]

A lot of effort went into making True20 a game where all you need is a single d20 to play. The fact that all you need is one d20 to play has been a major part of the promotion of True20 by Green Ronin. I'm not saying it is wrong, just odd. I'm 100% sure it is completely playable too. From your description above, it sounds like the need to roll a d6 or d4 isn't as integral as I initially thought and could be reworked somehow to rolling just a d20 too. My concern about Green Ronin's approval process was that they didn't ask to have that portion changed, based on how True20 works with just a single d20. Perhaps they just didn't see it - I know they are busy over there with the Freeport relaunch.

Believe me I'm not trying to condemn an entire book over it, nor do I think Green Ronin should. Like I said, you guys do great work, and I'm sure the book is far more in line with True20 than a simple table.

It's just two tables... it's possible they didnt see it.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, GR isnt looking at content, just license compliance.

Anyway, one of the tables was wrong, so we were going to go in and fix that anyway, so I'll just change all the ability damage to fixed values while I'm in there.

As I mentioned previously, Chris and I are working on a tight deadline right now, so it will be early next week, and I have be a little snippy too, so apologies on both fronts.

Chuck

 

[Turanil]

I never expected anyone to notice, or care that they would have to roll a d6 or a d4 for radiation damage and medical incompatibility.

Is it really that big a deal? You think GR should have not approved the book? That it might be a bad candidate for conversion? Cause it uses a d4 and a d6 on two tables?

Myself I don't care about that. On the contrary, I am even glad to get the opportunity to use other dice during a True20 session.

 

[jaerdaph]

As I mentioned previously, Chris and I are working on a tight deadline right now, so it will be early next week, and I have be a little snippy too, so apologies on both fronts.

No need to apologize - looking back at my original post it comes across a little snippy too, which wasn't my intention. As always, thank you for taking the time to listen to your fans.

 

[Jim Hague]

It's just two tables... it's possible they didnt see it.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, GR isnt looking at content, just license compliance.

Anyway, one of the tables was wrong, so we were going to go in and fix that anyway, so I'll just change all the ability damage to fixed values while I'm in there.

As I mentioned previously, Chris and I are working on a tight deadline right now, so it will be early next week, and I have be a little snippy too, so apologies on both fronts.

Chuck

It's all good, Chuck - as I said above, it's a niggle, a minor issue. I know from my own dealings with the fine folks at GR that they don't check more than the surface for rules compliance; that's for a publisher to rise and fall on their own.

A bigger concern for me is that the straight conversion produces numbers for things like weapons damage that're out of proportion with Toughness saves. But that can be dealt with after you hit deadline and make the (relatively) fat cash.

For what it's worth, I personally appreciate the setting-neutral stuff in the SH; it's damned useful for my upcoming online Fallout game. Also, I like seeing the little nods to the games that led up to the DW material.

 

[Vigilance]

It's all good, Chuck - as I said above, it's a niggle, a minor issue. I know from my own dealings with the fine folks at GR that they don't check more than the surface for rules compliance; that's for a publisher to rise and fall on their own.

A bigger concern for me is that the straight conversion produces numbers for things like weapons damage that're out of proportion with Toughness saves. But that can be dealt with after you hit deadline and make the (relatively) fat cash.

For what it's worth, I personally appreciate the setting-neutral stuff in the SH; it's damned useful for my upcoming online Fallout game. Also, I like seeing the little nods to the games that led up to the DW material.

Well, if you're talking about the more advanced weapons, they should be out of proportion to Toughness, at least imo. That's not a mistake, it's a concious choice.

There's advanced armors in the game meant to deal with the advanced weapons. If you're fighting opponents armed with Plasma Rifles and you're wearing Chain Mail, you *should* be screwed. On the other hand, if you're wearing Powered Armor, then you have a fighting chance.

And the reallly ridiculous weapons are anti-vehicle weapons (like the Gauss Cannon) and can't be carried. They're meant to defend fortified positions. Those are things you shouldn't encounter often and should just run from if you do.

 

[Jim Hague]

Well, if you're talking about the more advanced weapons, they should be out of proportion to Toughness, at least imo. That's not a mistake, it's a concious choice.

There's advanced armors in the game meant to deal with the advanced weapons. If you're fighting opponents armed with Plasma Rifles and you're wearing Chain Mail, you *should* be screwed. On the other hand, if you're wearing Powered Armor, then you have a fighting chance.

And the reallly ridiculous weapons are anti-vehicle weapons (like the Gauss Cannon) and can't be carried. They're meant to defend fortified positions. Those are things you shouldn't encounter often and should just run from if you do.

Here's my thing - there's deadly, and there's disproportionate. In a PA setting, deadly is the name of the game; take a look at some of the high-end weapon kills in Fallout, f'rex. But where I think - and again, this is IMO here - SH goes a bit overboard is in damages for even some of the advanced weapons. We may end up disagreeing anyway, but let me provide some examples:

Laser rifle +6 20/+3 Energy, Autofire 60 ft. Large 19 8 lb. - True20 Companion
Pulse laser rifle +9 20/+3 Energy, Autofire, 100 ft. Large - SH

Plasma pistol +6 20/+3 Energy 60 ft. Medium 17 3 lb. - True20 Companion
Plasma Pistol +9 20/+3 Energy 100 ft. Small - SH

Plasma rifle +8 20/+3 Energy 80 ft. Large 19 8 lb. - True20 Companion
Plasma rifle +15 20/+3 Energy 200 ft. Large - SH

On average, the SH weaponry ends up doing nearly twice as much damage, has a significant advantage in range...you get the idea. There's not nearly the same gap with ballistic-type weapons, but that's a whole 'nother kettle anyway.

In any case, I'm still recommending the book to folks wanting to run True20-based PA games. It's good stuff, regardless of whether I agree with all of it or not.

 

[Vigilance]

There's another difference between the two books though (Darwin's World and the Companion): the weapons in the Companion can be bought.

Finding a Plasma Rifle in DW is the find of a lifetime.

It's like comparing the damage of a sword from the PHB to the stats I did for Excalibur in Legends of Excalibur.

And I'm not offended... lord knows I'm not perfect. Im just pointing out the thought process that went into the numbers.

I didn't just convert them directly. There was a lot of thought and playtesting that went into those numbers.

Chuck

 

[iwatt]

Laser rifle +6 20/+3 Energy, Autofire 60 ft. Large 19 8 lb. - True20 Companion
Pulse laser rifle +9 20/+3 Energy, Autofire, 100 ft. Large - SH

Plasma pistol +6 20/+3 Energy 60 ft. Medium 17 3 lb. - True20 Companion
Plasma Pistol +9 20/+3 Energy 100 ft. Small - SH

Plasma rifle +8 20/+3 Energy 80 ft. Large 19 8 lb. - True20 Companion
Plasma rifle +15 20/+3 Energy 200 ft. Large - SH

On average, the SH weaponry ends up doing nearly twice as much damage, has a significant advantage in range...you get the idea. There's not nearly the same gap with ballistic-type weapons, but that's a whole 'nother kettle anyway.

In any case, I'm still recommending the book to folks wanting to run True20-based PA games. It's good stuff, regardless of whether I agree with all of it or not.

Different Genres though. Ammo for plasma rifles should be scarce, and hence they become more akin to a wand of fireballs than a crossbow. Limited ammo, quite the wallop.