D&D 5E Truly Understanding the Martials & Casters discussion (+)

[Mort]

In one of my personal 'now shut up' responses to 'but my ~versimilitude~!' was that since adamantine and mithral exist in large enough quantities that doors are being made of the stuff, it's likely they're trace minerals that enter every living creature via the food chain, thus making all living things in the world lighter and more resilient than Earthbound versions.

Who needs iron supplements. That's why the local peddler sells adamantium and mithril supplements - for those that just don't get enough in their diet!

That would also be a fun mystery adventure with a nice mythical twist. The local baron's peasants are sick/dying. Turns out they're all suffering from mithril deficiency because long ago the baron figured out a way to siphon it from the water/food supply to augment his armory (and it's just now catching up with the peasants).

 

[Gammadoodler]

I thought Commanding Presence and Tactical Assessment did?

Cheers. Thanks for the specifics! It’s really helpful.

I guess my follow up would be if the fighter could have a suite of abilities - let’s call them ‘Powers’. And those powers were used by expending units of personal energy - let’s call them ‘Power Slots’. One of the 1st level powers was called “Leap” and allowed a person to jump three times higher than they normally could for about a minute. Would this not be a solution to the problem?

Or let’s say another ‘Power’ was called ‘False friend’ and allowed you to convince people to do things they wouldn’t otherwise do for a stranger, until they had chance to think about it. Would that not let them influence social situations like a wizard could

In other words, a rose by any other name, would smell as sweet.

Exactly. In the same way action surge, second wind, and indomitable are also just "roses by another name"

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

This is the kind of divisive post that sets both sides against each other. Nobody is saying martials can’t have nice things.

Absolutely disagree. You think a 10' AE pushback at will is somehow overpowered lol. That's the very flippin definition of "martials cant have nice things". The usual suspects show up to all these discussions, screaming how they love their 20th level dirt farmer. They aren't just happy with their fighter being a porter/sidekick tier character, they want to ensure everyone else's is as well.

 

[Oofta]

This is an argument to never change anything. Before change occurs there will never be consensus on exactly what to change and how much to change it, and there will always be people who are fine with the status quo.

Based on the poll on this we had a while back, a plurality of voters (41.5%) don't see a problem. But without an arbiter there will never be agreement. I gave a few ideas, but you can't just say "fighters should have X" without some pushback especially when people don't agree on what X is. Different people on this thread want very different things.

Anyway, I'll go back to ignoring this.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Based on the poll on this we had a while back, a plurality of voters (41.5%) don't see a problem. But without an arbiter there will never be agreement. I gave a few ideas, but you can't just say "fighters should have X" without some pushback especially when people don't agree on what X is. Different people on this thread want very different things.

Anyway, I'll go back to ignoring this.

Another way of looking at that data is that a majority of voters did see a problem.

 

[TheSword]

Absolutely disagree. You think a 10' AE pushback at will is somehow overpowered lol. That's the very flippin definition of "martials cant have nice things". The usual suspects show up to all these discussions, screaming how they love their 20th level dirt farmer. They aren't just happy with their fighter being a porter/sidekick tier character, they want to ensure everyone else's is as well.

Well it depends on the level. At 1st level it’s definitely overpowered. It isn’t at 20th level.

That’s why spells that already codified and have rudimentary balance are best for determining when stuff should come online.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Let’s be honest, who is asking for the Fighter to fly or teleport? Doesn’t your reply just go back to my earlier point how it would be a mistake to argue that people are just wanting fighters to cast spells and magic?

I am. It is 100% important to give fighters the option to fly past a certain point (I'd say starting at 11). Not all fighters need to, but anyone making a fighter should be able to select a boon/perk/whatever. Magic item flight, mount, making out with a dragon, but that choice needs to be player facing, not at the DM's mercy for whatever loot they get.

 

[Oofta]

Another way of looking at that data is that a majority of voters did see a problem.

But can't agree on anything else.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Vast majority thinks there's a problem.

It's the plurality that's important!

D&D's primary problem, not just the fighter, but the game as a whole is its incredible, Blob-like inertia to change even when a massive number of participants want it. It's why the bias playtest in 5e put us in the position where this thread exists in the first place. Remember: we DID have a fighter a lot of people complaining here would have been happy with. And it got turned into a low-powered subclass version of itself.

 

[TwoSix]

It's really a lack of a divide between the broader category of 'Fantastic elements' and the specific fantastic element of 'magic'.

It's saying the One Ring is fundamentally the same as big spiders. Granted, the performative fear of the internet would have to think they were equal in threat, but still.

This too. Something can be "supernatural" without being "magic", but I don't think everyone embraces those definitions.