TSR paid $1,000,000 for the Dragonlance logo? (New: Response from the authors)

[vrykyl]

Good afteroon, everyone!

This has been an interesting thread to say the least. I know both Aaron and Jim, and work with Margaret and Tracy regularly, so this was an eyeball-opener for me! I was a young 'un (as we Southern boys are wont to say) when all of this was actually going on, but there is definitely something strange about the artwork up on Noble Knight. For me, it's a curiosity, but for others it may be a valuable collectible -- though the fact that the art there does not really relate at all to the Dragonlance logo and marketing materials actually used casts some doubt.

As a small-press publisher, we try to make nice-looking stuff and spend as little money as possible -- so throwing high-dollar amounts for a few pieces of art is completely foreign, but as Gary shared with us I've heard lots of strange stories about those days at TSR. Whenever I walk or drive by one of the old TSR offices, I can't help but remember the stories told by my friends and colleagues who worked for the company over the years.

Jamie Chambers
Vice President
Sovereign Press, Inc.

 

[DaveMage]

Actually, I did a little checking of the archives and the subscription rate was $2,000, not $4,000 - apologies for the error.

 

[vrykyl]

Actually, I did a little checking of the archives and the subscription rate was $2,000, not $4,000 - apologies for the error.

I believe the subscription idea was Jim Ward's idea, as TSR offered something similar in its earliest years. I don't remember what the original cost was, but it was in the low hundreds I believe, and those subscribers are supposedly getting products from Wizards of the Coast to this day. This could be an urban legend, but that's the way I remember it.

Jamie Chambers
Vice President
Sovereign Press, Inc.

 

[DaveMage]

I believe the subscription idea was Jim Ward's idea, as TSR offered something similar in its earliest years. I don't remember what the original cost was, but it was in the low hundreds I believe, and those subscribers are supposedly getting products from Wizards of the Coast to this day. This could be an urban legend, but that's the way I remember it.

Jamie Chambers
Vice President
Sovereign Press, Inc.

I think the TSR one was $400, but since I got the FFE one wrong, I'm not swearing by it.

 

[Aeson]

No. Everything was pertty ugly in the 70s. The 80s had big hair, sure. But the 70s had afros, bell-bottoms, polyester disco clothing, and interior decorating that should have struck the entire nation blind.

Hey who wouldn't Qubert blocks on the wall.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I'm guessing it has something to do with people here pointing out how uniformly terrible Fast Forward's products were.

Just as a guess.

--Erik

Close.

How uniformly terrible Fast Forward's products are. Just because they're no longer being printed doesn't mean that they've suddenly become great products!

In some ways it's too bad that FF could never get into the rules. They had some great ideas with Dungeon World, and the different approach of actually selling rings that were in a book were nifty and I loved the layout of Treasure Quests with a spiral binding, even if the book itself was so out there...

 

[KaosDevice]

In some ways it's too bad that FF could never get into the rules. They had some great ideas with Dungeon World, and the different approach of actually selling rings that were in a book were nifty and I loved the layout of Treasure Quests with a spiral binding, even if the book itself was so out there...

I would agree. Some interesting ideas that didn't get decent treatment. Too bad FFE wasn't a little more tenacious; companies can rise up from rocky beginnings and become very worthwhile (I'm looking at you Mongoose Publishing). Well, RPG publishing is definately a very Darwinian environment.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Also, from what I've heard, if you can produce product on time consistantly, you can get into comic books. There seem to be openings for even bad comic book artists if they can consistantly produce the needed work on a short time table.

This must explain Rob Leifeld.

Alas, if only something could explain that quirk of comic-dom. Unfortunately, however, Mr. Liefeld is hardly noted for his consistent and timely work.

For that matter, a lot of "hot" artists these days seem to be very inconsistent and untimely- the guy who works on New Avengers, for one. (Can't think of his name offhand... it's on the tip of my tongue.)

 

[Noble Knight Games]

Jim Wards response

Aaron,

What I told you is the truth. I will be happy to sign any statement you wish on the matter. We are both men or honor and sometimes people will disagree no matter what we do.

I was an employee of TSR for over 20 years and I was part of the Dragonlance team and I was the Vice President of the production group. You can refer them to me using my email address.

Best regards,

Jim Ward
sirjmw@aol.com

 

[vrykyl]

To throw some more gasoline on the fire, I just got off the phone about Jim Ward on an unrelated matter, but mentioned this thread to him. He said that he remembers giving Noble Knight the piece, but that he thought it was TSR's internal artists going for a first-pass at the Dragonlance logo. He thinks it was Larry Elmore, but does not swear by it. He doesn't remember anyone going to an outside ad agency to produce any of the logos.

So apparently it is a legitimate part of Dragonlance history, albeit small -- but the story of where it came from is evolving. The truth is out there -- somewhere!

Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.