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TSR3 missed deadlines, delays in Dungeon Crawl

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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Do they think that's a trait that a particular market segment admires?

Yes.

Technically, I should say that their behavior is consistent with that belief, as I cannot read minds and have not spoken to them.

But yes, they think there's a market segment that will love them for this.
 

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Filthy Lucre

Explorer
Yes.

Technically, I should say that their behavior is consistent with that belief, as I cannot read minds and have not spoken to them.

But yes, they think there's a market segment that will love them for this.
The fact that 5e is an unstoppable juggernaut I can't imagine what market research they're seeing to the contrary. They're shooting for a niche of a niche of a niche.

I mean, to each their own though, I guess.
 

Nice! I can imagine how pricey bringing a boardgame to production is.

Years ago I made a mech boardgame called "All Your Mech ABTU" based on that meme lol. Was a great game to play, but too expensive to manufacture, so I've only got the prototype lol

View attachment 149031

It's vile beyond belief, plain and simple.

This makes me so mad. For so many reasons, on many layers. Not just for the appropriation, but for the implied equivalency between evil races and black people. Which, ironically, proves the point they are arguing doesn't exist. And I'm sure making people mad is just fun to them.

It really is the same playbook we've seen countless times before. It's not about getting good publicity. Good publicity, bad publicity, it's all the same to them. A marketing strategy based on continual outrage.

Just a quick reminder for the thread:
Don't click on any links to Dungeon Hobby Shop, or any other of Lasagna's YouTube channels. Not even if you want to give him a piece of your mind. The algorithm doesn't care why you might be stopping by, it just counts visits. And the algorithm doesn't differentiate between "thumbs up" and "thumbs down" either, so even negative traffic helps his rhetoric show up on more peoples' screens.

The hardest you can slap that clown is to ignore him utterly. Do not respond to his messages, do not click on any links to his stuff, and do not visit, watch, downvote, or comment on anything he posts. Let's train the algorithm to ignore him.

I can't get over the "alongside millions of others in the hobby" comment. Those numbers just don't hold water, and if they bothered at all with those pesky things known as facts, they'd know it.

Apparently they legit think they are the majority. I've seen comments like this a lot. It's mind boggling the stuff they believe despite all evidence to the contrary right in front of them:

View attachment 149066
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
It really is the same playbook we've seen countless times before. It's not about getting good publicity. Good publicity, bad publicity, it's all the same to them. A marketing strategy based on continual outrage.

Well, they don't actually have anything we can reasonably call a product that they are marketing.

It is as if what they are marketing is the outrage itself. This is a basis for grift - don't actually provide a product, but allow you to fork over cash to buy into the outrage.
 


Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
Nice! I can imagine how pricey bringing a boardgame to production is.
Not to derail the thread, but this was around the time oil prices started to spike. And with increased oil prices, plastics costs increased a lot as well. It's hard to see by the image, but a large part of the game was that each individual component of the mech was printed on a transparency, and you stacked transparencies to "build" your mech. That was costly. At the time (again, about 10 years ago) the cost to manufacture was around $100. I'm sure at a mass production it could work, but I don't have those resources or customer base lol

photo of game copy.jpg
 




Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Not to derail the thread, but this was around the time oil prices started to spike. And with increased oil prices, plastics costs increased a lot as well. It's hard to see by the image, but a large part of the game was that each individual component of the mech was printed on a transparency, and you stacked transparencies to "build" your mech. That was costly. At the time (again, about 10 years ago) the cost to manufacture was around $100. I'm sure at a mass production it could work, but I don't have those resources or customer base lol

View attachment 149074
For years, i have thought games like Pirates of the Spanish Main, Rocketmen, or something like your idea would work well as a set of rules to be used with an extant building toy like Legos. I could envision damage being tracked by swapping out bricks of different colors.

Obvious flaws:

1) you’d need a BUNCH of Legos
2) you’d need to be patient, because swapping out bricks isn’t exactly fast.
 


jdrakeh

Adventurer

It's pretty bad. Some more recent editions of MA were also not well received. I'd like to think that Giantlands is better, but between both of his business partners being apparent transphobes and one being creatively bankrupt, I don't have too much hope.
 
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vincegetorix

Jewel of the North
It's pretty bad. Some more recent editions of MA were also not well received. I'd like to think that Giantlands is better, but between both of his business partners being apparent transphobes and one being creatively bankrupt, I don't have too much hope.
I you can find the tweet/video of Ward bragging about the ''innovations'' of Giantlands as a game, you'll see that he hasnt learnt much since he made Tainted Lands :p
 

Why so much antipathy to Ward? I seem to recall his fingers on a bunch of good material back in the early days.
He lost the plot when he published "Angry mothers from heck" in dragon magazine (#140 i think). Then there was his 3e company, Fast Forward Entertainment/Games. Every single word they produced for that edition is utterly unsalvagable dreck.
 

I don't think that's a fair comment. Kinda rude, actually. While yes, lots of things are subjective, Jim did write a lot of things held fondly by gamers.
I'll point you towards the angry mothers from heck article in dragon plus his 3e company, Fast Forward Entertainment/Games. Everything he wrote for that edition of the game was trash.

and metamorphosis alpha and gamma world weren't that great.
 

He lost the plot when he published "Angry mothers from heck" in dragon magazine (#140 i think).

Having read that article, I don't really understand how he lost the plot in it. He talks about a number of changes that were made to make D&D less offensive, and even closes with "This company is interested in presenting material that promotes all of the qualities that parents want their children to have as those children grow up."

Dragon 154, for reference: https://annarchive.com/files/Drmg154.pdf
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
I'll point you towards the angry mothers from heck article in dragon plus his 3e company, Fast Forward Entertainment/Games. Everything he wrote for that edition of the game was trash.

and metamorphosis alpha and gamma world weren't that great.
Ok. I fail to see what the problem is with that article. I mean, it was written in 1990, so there's some choices of words we might consider slightly misogynist by today's standards, but the overall point of the article is to make the game less offensive. How is that a bad thing? They are a business, after all. And what's wrong with being less offensive? I for one don't want D&D, the face of the hobby, to be all edglordy and gross.

Also, his work on Deities and Demigods, Gamma World, and Greyhawk all are viewed fondly by a whole lot of gamers.

I'm not saying all his stuff is good (hardly anyone can say everything they did was good), but I don't think it's fair to say anything he does is trash. You don't have the career he has had and the respect of other big names in the industry like he has if all you do is trash. I might not agree with his personal views on a lot of things, but let's keep it real.
 

I mean, it was written in 1990, so there's some choices of words we might consider slightly misogynist by today's standards, but the overall point of the article is to make the game less offensive.
I read it as the 1990 version of "We're doing our best to be woke." If anything, it shows that the original TSR was (outwardly, officially) taking the opposite stance of nuTSR.
 



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