Tucker's Kobolds -- really that tough a challenge?

The premise here is that an intelligently-run monster group is vastly more dangerous than it's hit dice would suggest. Kobolds are a great example because people assume that they're worthless monsters, fit only to give some 1st level PCs some XP.

Right. It's not about kobolds particularly, or about the detailed set of tactics they were using in the article. If you know what tactics your opponent is going to use, you can devise counter-tactics to thwart them. The fun part is, when you know the enemy you are about to face is going to use clever and original tactics of some sort, but you don't know exactly what. That forces you to think on your feet and find clever counter-tactics in the heat of battle.

And yes, that is the fun part. As long as it's your character and not you having to do it.

What's boring is when the PCs and the monsters both use the same 'stand toe-to-toe and make full attacks every round' tactics. Pretty soon, you get some combined RPG/computer nerd with a spreadsheet working out the expected DPS and saying, "OK, I've figured out that we'll defeat this enemy after 4.6 rounds of fighting, taking 21.4 points of damage each. So lets skip all this rolling, mark off three cure serious wounds spells and two cure moderates, get our XP, and move on to the next encounter." (And before anyone takes offense, that geek is reasonably likely to be me. B-) )
 

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Your 9th level wizard with cloudkill has to get that spell off first. All it takes is a couple kobolds with a wire noose that drops from the ceiling and your wizard is helpless and unable to cast spells while they jab a couple 1E save-or-die poisoned spears in him.

It's been a long time since I played 1E, but wasn't a spell lost if you took damage that round? I played with that rule but I'm not sure if it was a house rule or not.

Cloudkill? They see it kill a couple kobolds and then they pull back to higher tunnels, letting the heavier-than-air cloudkill pool into the lowest room they have. If this has been used on them before, then they also rig a trapdoor in that room so that when you pass under it two levels down it opens and the party chokes to death on it's own cloudkill.

What about Cloudkill + Gust of Wind? (Assuming you had those spells, of course - though it might be worth it to seek out a sage and ask him where you could find one.)
 

While it is certainly possible to use a low HD humanoid and challenge players, the specific problem I've always had with 'Tucker's Kobold's' type situations is that almost invariably they end up resolving to 'the DM judges the kobolds by different standards than he would judge the players'. Invariably, in 1st edition and 2nd edition desciptions of 'Tucker's Kobold's' type challenges, there are always special rules created to give the kobolds some advantage.

And even when there aren't, the kobolds still have less tangible but certainly important advantages that are the result of being run by the DM. For example, 'Tucker's Kobolds' never have command and control problems. They always know where the PC's are and are always able to perfectly coordinate their actions. They never waste time or delay anything else because they are never short of information. Not only do they act as if they were part of a telepathic hive mind, but they effectively have omniscence.

Likewise, any 'off stage' kobold more or less has the ability to teleport once it gets more than a round or two from the players. They never fail to be able to perfectly predict the player's actions and move without fail to cut off the players. They are always able to swarm to the player's positions whenever any kobolds remain alive. They are always on hand whenever they need to be.

Additionally, they have perfect knowledge of the player's capabilities. They know exactly what to prepare for. Whenever they are on hand, they always have exactly the right tools prepared to counter the PC's plans.

Additionally, they have infinite resources to make those preperations. They can purchase or make any counter they desire, and if these defenses are trashed they have an infinite amount of labor and raw materials to repair the damage.

The sort of DM's that got off on 'Tucker's Kobolds' scenarios seem particularly prone to this sort of thing, often without even being consciously aware that they are doing it. It's even shown up in published scenarios. For example, the goblins in 'Axe of the Dwarvish Lords' basically had all the above problems in spades, and the 'special rules' they used for mass archer fire, opening doors, and so forth were simply DM cheating because the same things would never be allowed for low level PC's.

Still, it's not hard to come up with scenarios where the HD of the monster has little or no impact on the threat posed by the attack.

1) Ranged touch attacks: Ranged attacks are good in general, because they neutralize a certain portion of the PC's attacks. At sufficient range, the throw a PC needs to hit approaches 20, which turns missile exchanges in to a shear battle of numbers. Ranged touch attacks are even better, because they neutralize a good portion of the PC's #1 advantage - superior armor class. If you add to that grenade like weapons, so that there is a good chance you'll 'hit' even if you miss, you get into a situation where it doesn't matter what the THAC0 of the attacker is all that much. Burning oil is the perfect weapon for low HD monsters.

Never mind that a typical 'Tucker's Kobold' tribe will in a single session burn oil worth several times the total value of goods that a kobold tribe is supposed to own, and never mind that whatever the source is of all this wealth it probably won't be made available to the PC's no matter what.

2) Poison: Poison is another big neutralizer, because it neutralizes another one of the PC's biggest advantages - superior hit points. Each hit becomes threatening, regardless of the PC's remaining hit points and potentially vast healing resources.

3) Ballistic Weapons: If I'm blindly lobbing ordinance over an opaque wall, it basically doesn't matter that I don't have particularly good aim. The chances that I hit are entirely based on luck at that point, and in all likelihood any return fire you make will be similarly handicapped. Moreover, since most spells rely on line of sight, I've just neutralized another one of the PC's biggest advantages.

4) Highly Favorable Terrain: I have 90% cover, am located 20' up a wall on the other side of a concealed pit, and you are fighting on an uneven stone floor covered with hot pig fat and liberally sprinkled with caltrops. Additionally, I've strung lengths of sharpened piano wire about the room at various heights.

5) Abusing 'tame' monsters: So, I just threw a nest of hornets into the middle of the room. Swarms are great. And, I'm not just lobbing rocks over the wall, I'm lobbing clay pots containing green slime/yellow mold/rot grubs. And, the concealed pit contains a black pudding. And the tribe has well trained giant weasels/hell hounds they can unleash for their kennels.

6) Traps: Naturally, a whole tribe of kobolds manages to safely live in quarters that are more lethally trapped than Acerak's tomb without ever having accidents.
 

I remember Tucker's Kobolds.
Remember that these critters had access to an arsenal of items to help them, had a whole webwork of tunnels to crawl through, and they were extremely competent guerilla fighters. They also were endlessly patient, completely ruthless, set a new precedent in ruthlessness, and there were a lot of them.

I would wager them against even a large, competent party of 7th and 8th level characters.

In 3rd edition, they could have challenged a large 9th or 10th level party, even if the kobolds were only 1st level, due to the large number of classes (and all the spell-using classes) available to them.
If the kobolds were higher level, they could have challenged parties with levels in their teens.

*Tucker's Kobold's* would have been 10th level or even higher, in 3E.
In this case, they could have taken on a large party where party levels were 20th or higher.

Remember the overwhelming power of Instant Kill Poison, a common favorite of monsters in 1E and 2E. (A round lasted one minute, long enough for the poison to take effect and incapacitate totally.)
Poison was a Save or Die affair, and your chances weren't real good of making the Save unless you were high level (not even if you were a dwarf.)
Tucker's Kobolds had no qualm about using poison ... or monsters they found (like Carrion Crawls or Green Slime) or other nasty things (like improvised traps, pit traps, collapsing ceilings, oil slicks, and even crude explosives or explosive gasses.)

Tucker's Kobolds never made morale checks, never lost their will to fight, would never stop (the Terminator would have liked them.)
The party they attacked, was psychologically overwhelmed by the attack, the endless attack that kept on coming, first taking their animals, then their hirelings, then their henchmen, then finally them, one by one.

Tucker's Kobolds, aren't something any character I ever ran would want to run into. The only exceptions being a human paladin of mine named Osilovar, who would have blown his great horn and fought the glorious fight, and my Haldendreeva elven girl Trillirra, who would have fought them tooth and nail, killing (and eating) them one by one.

I'd rather have an enemy army of kender (armed with high powered magic) to deal with, than Tucker's Kobolds.
I think Raistlin would agree with me (and even Mordenkainen and Elminster, too.)

Tucker's Kobolds could have completely messed up the drow city of Menzoberranzan, and I don't say THAT lightly!
 

However, like anything else in D&D, as long as the players at the table get something worthwhile from it, its worth considering.
It's like a very tired in-joke (gsnort, you guys got owned by kobolds, gsnort!) combined with an undeserved egoboo that the DM or designer can pat themselves on the back for for being so clever...oblivious to the idea that they can use anything to cheat the players, and almost always win, so long as they invent special case rules and use unlimited resources, DM knowledge, hiveminds etc. as has been mentioned in this thread.

In short, the idea should be a dead duck, and it would be long forgotten but for the above two DM bennies (in-joke and egoboo). As a result it's an undead duck, which IMO is desperately in need of a good long drink from the holy water firehose.

If you must do it, at least use jermlaine, who actually have an affinity for traps.
 
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Dragon Mountain had a lot of this as well, with kobolds throwing essentially endless amounts of save-or-die poisoned darts at you. Even back then I felt something weird was going on. We weren't actually fighting a nest of kobolds. We were facing a constant barrage of pain that happened to have some kobold-y flavortext. They might've been humans or halflings or orcs and it wouldn't have mattered.

Tucker's Kobolds is an idea that should be dead and left in the past. It sets out to prove that even weak opponents are dangerous if played intelligently. But instead it proves that monsters are irrelevant if you're willing to cheat enough damage onto the PCs.
 

I avoid silly stuff like kobolds having anti-Cloudkill tactics, or readied actions that beat an exploding fireball (WTF?!).

I do use constricted tunnels and the kind of thing you'll see in any medieval castle. One of my favourites was a 3'x3' tunnel with a 4' drop at the end into a chamber. The monsters (quaggoths) easily slaughtered the poor PCs who kept trying to crawl through into the room. I also gave a 22nd level 2e Wizard a very tough time in an orc lair, the orcs numbered several hundred (a full "30-300" 1e/2e style orc encounter) and had some Winter Wolves, plus they made good use of deadfall traps, chain-drapes and the like. Nothing specifically aimed at 20th level Wizards mind you, but intelligent tactics vs generic flying and invisible foes.
 

The worst Tucker-inspired cheese I ever saw was a Dungeon magazine module where the kobold tribe was armed with dozens and dozens of globes from Necklaces of Fireballs. I wanted to strangle the author.
 

Caveat: Any bad DM can ruin any type of encounter, and thus a bad DM does not invalidate the encounter so described. So YMMV, 'kay?

Suffice it to say, that when I ran Hero's Snare there was a reason the kobolds were so tenacious, the PCs eventually got access to the surveillance and movement tunnels (by squeezing) and thus figured out how they knew so much, they got breathers that simulated regrouping on the kobold end, they had a defined number of kobolds and resources, they had a source for those resources (mining and trade), they had a reason for having an alchemist and there was a separate "living quarters" warren that was trap-free.
 

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