borc killer
First Post
Can you tumble while use the fly spell?
Borc Killer
Borc Killer
tumble + fly?
- Thread starter borc killer
- Start date
green slime
First Post
Of course. Why not?
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
It depends on what your DM considers "normal movement".
-Hyp.
-Hyp.
borc killer
First Post
Hypersmurf said:
Yep that would be the issue in question Hypersmurf. Everyone else around the table felt that it would be impossible... I could not fathom why but I could not find a rules statements that said you COULD do it...
As I read fly it gives you fly as a base movement so it should be considered 'normal' as fare as I can tell.
thanks
Borc Killer
Just to give a little background to this question, I am the DM that ruled that you cannot use Tumble while flying, Poor little borc killer is mad at me hehe. but here are my reasons what do you think?
Here is why I have a problem with PCs or NPCs getting fly cast on them and being able to Tumble.
Couatl - CR10 - Fly 60ft (good) - Tumble +15 - pg 37 MM3.5
Pit Fiend - CR20 - Fly 60ft (Average) - Tumble +31 - pg 57 MM3.5
Eladrin – CR6 – Fly 100ft (Perfect) – Tumble +13 – pg 93 MM3.5
The creatures listed above also have listed ground movement speeds as well.
Those are the ONLY creatures in the whole book that have fly as a listed speed and have Tumble as a skill. I just find it hard to believe that a PC can, when he has fly cast on him, fly better then any other creature in the book that has been ‘flying’ its whole life. It is just ludicrous to me that all a rogue needs is a 3rd level spell cast on him and he can maneuver better then an Air Elemental, or any other flying creature with Perfect flying movement.
Sure you can say that “ohh but I have been practicing my tumbling my whole life”, but tumbling is NOT based on movement through air it is movement based on resistance, and you learned tumbling by rolling on the ground, doing flips on the ground, or just maybe you learned to do acrobatics through doing the flips on the bars. At any rate the skill Tumble in the PHB only refers to acts of tumbling as it relates to movement on the ground or to grant a soft landing on the ground.
Do I have any written game rules to back up my argument? No, it is all interpretation just as you have interpreted what you see, however I believe that giving any creature the ability to tumble in the air is granting way too much power to that creature, it just has no interpretation to a real life situation as described in the PHB and MM. Because really if you could tumble in the air, then why wouldn’t every creature that can fly have tumble as a skill if it is to be considered their “aerobatics”.
I guess what it comes down to is that while you are granted the ability to fly at a movement of 60’ at a good rate, it is not a natural movement; it is a magical movement rate. While it takes no concentration to use the effects of the spell you are not used to it mentally so how would you know exactly what kind of a tumbling move would be effective in combat if you had never flown or had very little flying experience before hand. I think it just comes down to the fact that if there should be a tumbling skill for flying creatures it should NOT be interchangeable between flying tumbling and ground tumbling.
Borc
Here is why I have a problem with PCs or NPCs getting fly cast on them and being able to Tumble.
Couatl - CR10 - Fly 60ft (good) - Tumble +15 - pg 37 MM3.5
Pit Fiend - CR20 - Fly 60ft (Average) - Tumble +31 - pg 57 MM3.5
Eladrin – CR6 – Fly 100ft (Perfect) – Tumble +13 – pg 93 MM3.5
The creatures listed above also have listed ground movement speeds as well.
Those are the ONLY creatures in the whole book that have fly as a listed speed and have Tumble as a skill. I just find it hard to believe that a PC can, when he has fly cast on him, fly better then any other creature in the book that has been ‘flying’ its whole life. It is just ludicrous to me that all a rogue needs is a 3rd level spell cast on him and he can maneuver better then an Air Elemental, or any other flying creature with Perfect flying movement.
Sure you can say that “ohh but I have been practicing my tumbling my whole life”, but tumbling is NOT based on movement through air it is movement based on resistance, and you learned tumbling by rolling on the ground, doing flips on the ground, or just maybe you learned to do acrobatics through doing the flips on the bars. At any rate the skill Tumble in the PHB only refers to acts of tumbling as it relates to movement on the ground or to grant a soft landing on the ground.
Do I have any written game rules to back up my argument? No, it is all interpretation just as you have interpreted what you see, however I believe that giving any creature the ability to tumble in the air is granting way too much power to that creature, it just has no interpretation to a real life situation as described in the PHB and MM. Because really if you could tumble in the air, then why wouldn’t every creature that can fly have tumble as a skill if it is to be considered their “aerobatics”.
I guess what it comes down to is that while you are granted the ability to fly at a movement of 60’ at a good rate, it is not a natural movement; it is a magical movement rate. While it takes no concentration to use the effects of the spell you are not used to it mentally so how would you know exactly what kind of a tumbling move would be effective in combat if you had never flown or had very little flying experience before hand. I think it just comes down to the fact that if there should be a tumbling skill for flying creatures it should NOT be interchangeable between flying tumbling and ground tumbling.
Borc
borc killer
First Post
heheh. Good post Borc!
First off I never asked that tumble break the basic rules of flying as put forth on pg 20 in the DMG. If you tumbled while in flight you would still have to make sure you did not violate any of the maneuverability rules. That part is at least obvious.
Second, most PCs have been walking for most of their lives and as per the spell fly you can fly just as easily as you can walk. This means the spell gives you all the knowledge you need to fly… including in my mind the ability to tumble.
Third, a spell such as fly should not penalize the player who has spent 15 skill points because it changes his movement type. Especially when it states that you can move just as easily as walking.
Borc Killer
First off I never asked that tumble break the basic rules of flying as put forth on pg 20 in the DMG. If you tumbled while in flight you would still have to make sure you did not violate any of the maneuverability rules. That part is at least obvious.
Second, most PCs have been walking for most of their lives and as per the spell fly you can fly just as easily as you can walk. This means the spell gives you all the knowledge you need to fly… including in my mind the ability to tumble.
Third, a spell such as fly should not penalize the player who has spent 15 skill points because it changes his movement type. Especially when it states that you can move just as easily as walking.
Borc Killer
Liminal Syzygy
Community Supporter
Perhaps you guys could agree on a middle ground... A significant penalty to tumble checks when flying in the range of -5 to -10.
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