Turn Undead - what do you do?

[MerricB]

This probably should be a poll, but I really don't know what all the options should be.

Turn Undead is one of the more problematical rules in 3E. It triggers on the monster's hit dice, but that is a poor measure of gauging how tough a monster is. Thus, a big CR 5 zombie can be harder to turn than a dangerous CR 14 Vampire.

I like having the daily uses of Turn Undead there (as I love the Divine Feats), and in recent months I've been using the variant turning of Complete Divine - Turn Undead deals 1d6 damage per cleric level to all undead within 60 feet (save for half).

Are there other variants out there? What do you think of Turn Undead?

Cheers!

 

[Harmon]

Generally we just turn the figures of the Turned undead, then on their turn they run away.

I like the Sacred Boost Feat for my Barronor Truesilver follower. When used in the middle of a group of undead followed by a Mass CMW- it works oh, so well.

 

[Crothian]

I am no fan of the Turn Undead rules either which is why I was so happy that the Dwarven Cleric PC choose to take a racial dwarven cleric substitution level that swapped out turning for smite giants. I have included more giants in the game then undead to make him feel his choice was warrented. And noiw undead can be feared again.

 

[Zander]

I don't like the turn undead rules either; they're needlessly complex and don't resemble any other core rule.

The Complete Divine is a step in the right direction but instead of doing damage, undead should flee. In other words, get rid of the mechanism that affects lower HD undead first. Have the cleric's turn attempt modified by some combination of his Wis, Cha and class level and the undead's modified by the same (using hit dice or CR instead of level) plus some additional bonus to maintain game balance. Have the number of times per day a cleric can attempt to turn be a fraction of the cleric's class level with a fixed range and duration. Simple.

Whether one adopts this solution or not, the mechanism for turning undead should be broadly similar to the ability of knights from the PHB II to issue challenges.

 

[Li Shenron]

The rules could be better, but IMHO the variants which do damage just change it in the most possibly boring thing... There's spells and weapons to do the same thing already, having another one - even with minimal differences - is a defeat. Better to take it away completely then, and replace it with a throughly different ability.

 

[der_kluge]

I don't think the rules are all that complex. Well, yea, you have to look up that chart everytime, but only if it's close. I mean, I usually make the cleric roll first, and then if it's iffy, we look up the chart. If he rolls really high, or really low, I usually know right away whether he's successful or not. Then it's just 2d6 for HD.

What complicates it is that some undead have turn resistance, which I often don't realize until a few rounds after they've been turned as I'm reading the monster description more thoroughly.

What would be nice if undead included a turn DC on their monster stat block. That would be very handy.


We use minis, so to indicate undead are turned, I do what Harmon does - I simply turn them the other way, and then they flee on their movement.

 

[KB9JMQ]

We play by the RAW but I hate them. Why Turning can't be tweaked to be an opposed roll rather than the rigamarole it is now I am not sure.

We have looked at a lot of variants but havent decided which one we like best.

 

[Thunderfoot]

I realize everyone here is against the rule part of it, but remember this is a representative feat. It represents your faith (an abstract concept) against a creature spawned through an abimonible act of blasphemy.

The HD roll represents the power of your faith at the time of the turn indicating the interdiction of your divine patron. Weaker, less able undead are affected first - think of it in the sense of a jedi mind trick -
Master Skywalker should be allowed to speak - *You weak minded fool, he's using an old jedi mind trick* - never the less you will release Solo and the wookie to me - *BWHAHAHA your tricks won't work on me boy* etc etc

While the system is unlike the rest of d20 combat, the turn is not essentially a combat feat, though it has an obvious combat benefit. The system is basically an urated port over from 1st & 2nd editions - there really is no difference in what the system tries to accomplish, except that the number of uses is now limited. I personally don't have a problem with it.

 

[el-remmen]

I don't know - it works for me and in my game and I don't think it is all that complex.

I also have used it as a method for a lot of "specialty priest" alternate powers.

 

[Zander]

Weaker, less able undead are affected first....

Fair enough but if you allowed a separate save from each undead or type of undead, on average, you would have that effect anyway as the more powerful undead would be more likely to save.

You could wind up with some strange outcomes (e.g. a vampire runs away but his skeleton minions remain) but you can have some odd situations in D&D as it is (e.g. the puny, klutzy wizard survives a fireball that kills the built, agile fighter) and those are accepted.