D&D 3E/3.5 Twenty Years On. Modern 3E?

Strange, for me it was evident from the begining that it would be a modernized retro fit of 1ed and 2ed with a bit of the best idea of 3e and 4ed.
From 1ed and 2ed we got:
1) The classes. All 1ed classes are in the PHB. Not those in the unearthed arcana but we finally got them with the XGtE.
2) A strong low to mid level game. At higher level, the game's break a bit but not to the point of being unplayable.
3) The classic spells.
4) The base races.
5) Multiclassing in a better incarnation. But still a wee bit too easy for my tastes...

From 3e we got:
1) Additionnal classes such as warlock and sorcerers.
2) A logic progression system where, finally, a high score is always a good thing.
3) Stat related save.
4) We also go rid of strange stats such as 18.75 strength and uneven stat progression.
5) Feats.
6) Prestige classes. Yep, the subclasses can be viewed as a system of prestige classes (more or less I agree, but the basics are there. You start a rogue and you get to choose which path you will take, assassin, thief, arcane trickster, swashbuckler etc...) Some do it from the start others are at level 2 and others are at level 3... I would have prefer something more unified but I am fine with it anyway so...

From 4ed we got:
1) Effective cantrips. Before that, cantrips were largely useless and almost always forgotten. Now a caster is never out of magic to contribute, but there was a big cost in the number of high level spells they can cast.
2) More balanced martial classes in comparison to magic weilders. Previously, at high level, almost all damage was from the casters. Especially in 3ed where the Codzilla was a real thing. Now, martial classes can contribute a lot.
3) Monster stat blocks. It can be argued that this date back from 1ed but it is not really so. IF you check 1ed humanoids, you can see that if you encounter such and such number you will add such and such types of additionnal humanoid with equivalent fighter level (or any other class). Third edition also had something like this with but it was even more tedious. You could add subtype, enhanced the monster and you would add monsters feat to complete. In 4ed, all monsters have their stat block. It was way faster to make a high level encounter in 4ed than it was in previous editions. The same can be applied to 5ed.
4) Tiefling and Dragonborn. Though it can be argued that they come from earlier edition product, they were not in the corebooks before that. If your DM did not have the particuliar book in which they were, you could not do one of them.

So for me, 5ed did almost everything that was promised. The only thing missing, Psionics. I am not a lover of psionics and I'd rather not see them. But to be fair with all those that loved Darksun, we should get psionic one day (I hope for them). Psionics, were part of every edition of D&D so far. 5ed should not be an exception on this.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
  • I think 5e would have been better with 3 saves, ala 3e/4e. Take the best of Str/Con, Cha/Wis and Int/Dex to make your saves.
  • Prestige Class would have been fun, but I would have made them 5-levels classes with prerequisites being race/factions/background, instead of class levels.
  • I prefer spell effects to scale with the caster levels instead of upcasting spells, with DC being like in 5e. I dont like that lvl 1 - 2 damaging spells get overshadowed by cantrips at higher level.
  • 5e extra attacks are the way to go, no full-round attack with penalties if you want your martials to be competent at higher level.
  • Remove ASI from feats, give a little more feats and for the love that all things sacred, avoid +1 bonus to stuff. Go with +4 or advantage.
  • Increases the number of skills and make Int matters by giving +Int mod in number of skill proficiency.
  • Rogues should be able to sneak attack everything OR have more than one attack.

Not related to 3e:
Steal the round system of SotDL:

Start of the round
Fast turn: Only 1 action + B.A
Enemy turn
Slow turn: Move, 1 Action +B.A, slow turn automatically while concentrating.
End of the round
 

I think in most people's campaigns they have always been more fluff than actual rule. Otherwise a spellcaster would constantly need to maintain a shopping list. Shopping for spell components also bogs down the game, plus it allows the DM to arbitrarily make some spell components unavailable, which would be unfair to the player. Plus no DM is going to check if a player actually has the required components for a spell. What it is, is unnecessary busy work. It has always been a bad rule, in EVERY edition of D&D.
This.

We tried keeping track of each and every last component in my 2e AD&D days. . .it ultimately meant that casters had sheets and sheets of components for common things like sand and rose petals.

I saw the innovation of 3e's component pouch, and the presumption that if a character has a component pouch that any components that didn't have a listed cost were just presumed to be available to be a big innovation in keeping the game going and cutting down on pointless overhead. The Eschew Materials feat also helped with that one too, by making casters potent even if their pouch was lost or stolen.

If it's an expensive component with a listed cost, then making casters actually keep track of it is reasonable, especially since that's a relatively short list of spells (especially for things that are cast often).
 

Weiley31

Legend
was envisioning smaller strictly mechanical supplements outside of the core,
Here's the thing though: they are "doing that" but in a way that supports their money goals.

You want a Piety system to help mimic Paladins losing their powers or some other diety based mechanic? Or Feats at first level? The Theros book has ya covered.

You want the Renown/Faction system? It's in Ravinca book.

You want a weird/strange take on Tarot cards for whatever the reason in your DND games? Curse of Strahd makes it a possible key component in your quest progression for items that make things easier.

You want weapons/armor/items that scale? The Wildemount book has ya covered.

Various subsystems mentioned in the DMG are pretty much expanded upon via book releases. Now it's a moot point if your DM/Players are Makin there own rules and stuff for that. But if you aren't, then Wizards provides the means.

And of course, that's not including anything that is Guild Adept via DMguilds. Which just apparently came out with something that deals with Weapons and Items scaling/leveling up now.

But ya, a conversion guide or book from Wizards for stuff like Dark Sun, Planesape, or whatever would've been nice.

Alot of stuff from 3.5 I use in my games are just reflavored name changes of Classes (Battlemaster to Warblade) and races (Fey'ri is Tieflings with a name change and a few minor tweaks).
 
Last edited:

R_J_K75

Legend
If it's an expensive component with a listed cost, then making casters actually keep track of it is reasonable, especially since that's a relatively short list of spells (especially for things that are cast often).

10000 gp diamond comes to mind or however much it was.
 

R_J_K75

Legend
Here's the thing though: they are "doing that" but in a way that supports their money goals.

True enough but Id rather not have to hunt and peck through books for a subsystem, or buy a book that I normally wouldnt just for it. Thats where I miss 3.x web enhancements. Thats something Id like to see return from the 3E days. They may be doing that on D&D Beyond but I rarely if ever go to that site.
 

Weiley31

Legend
6) Prestige classes. Yep, the subclasses can be viewed as a system of prestige classes (more or less I agree, but the basics are there. You start a rogue and you get to choose which path you will take, assassin, thief, arcane trickster, swashbuckler etc...) Some do it from the start others are at level 2 and others are at level 3... I would have prefer something more unified but I am fine with it anyway so...
I always saw the Subclass system in 5E as more of a modern take on the Kit system of 2E. And in regards to Prestige Classes, I still feel they can be done in 5E, but should be a 5 level progression that becomes available to take at level 15.
 

Weiley31

Legend
True enough but Id rather not have to hunt and peck through books for a subsystem, or buy a book that I normally wouldnt just for it. Thats where I miss 3.x web enhancements. Thats something Id like to see return from the 3E days. They may be doing that on D&D Beyond but I rarely if ever go to that site.f
Oh believe me, I completely agree. All of the DND books that I've gotten for 5E have basically been the ones that included the subsystem mechanics. The only adventure/module books I have are pretty much the Essential Starters Kit and the upcoming Frostmaiden/Strahd Revamped Collectors Edition. Yes it would be nice if there was a web enhancement or even the revival of the awesome Forgotten Realms Wizards website with all the wonderful articles and stuff they used to have.

And since I am Old-School and prefer my books physical, I don't use DND Beyond either. Their League of Legends cross-over content was probably the only time I actually visited the site with legit interest.
 

R_J_K75

Legend
Oh believe me, I completely agree. All of the DND books that I've gotten for 5E have basically been the ones that included the subsystem mechanics. The only adventure/module books I have are pretty much the Essential Starters Kit and the upcoming Frostmaiden/Strahd Revamped Collectors Edition. Yes it would be nice if there was a web enhancement or even the revival of the awesome Forgotten Realms Wizards website with all the wonderful articles and stuff they used to have.

And since I am Old-School and prefer my books physical, I don't use DND Beyond either. Their League of Legends cross-over content was probably the only time I actually visited the site with legit interest.

100% agree. I have no use for Beyond or Adventure League so I just use whatever books I own that WotC puts out. I dont even bother with UA and figure I'll read it when it comes out in an official format. Even Dragon+, Im sure theres some decent stuff in there but the format hurts my brain for some some reason. Only took me 30-some issues to finally figure out how to navigate it.
 

Weiley31

Legend
100% agree. I have no use for Beyond or Adventure League so I just use whatever books I own that WotC puts out. I dont even bother with UA and figure I'll read it when it comes out in an official format. Even Dragon+, Im sure theres some decent stuff in there but the format hurts my brain for some some reason. Only took me 30-some issues to finally figure out how to navigate it.
UA is 100% fully supported at my games.
 

Remove ads

AD6_gamerati_skyscraper

Remove ads

Upcoming Releases

Top