D&D 5E Twilight Cleric, a play report (DM's perspective)

[Burnside]

You guys are all aware that Temp HP dont stack right?

When you get a new set, you either keep the ones you have or ditch them and take the new ones.

Still a little OP, but personally I think if you simply added a concentration requirement, it would be fine.

Yes, we are aware. It’s still non-concentration Heroism for the ENTIRE party, multiple combats per day, starting at level 2. Oh and it ends charm effects as well.

 

[Stalker0]

...5e Clerics have been consistently top top tier in terms of power - yet there is still a lack of enthusiasm re: players playing them.

I've both made clerics and seen clerics played....and while they are "fine"....top tier? Nah, I think plenty of other classes bring more to the table. Now this twilight cleric....now that's a battle cleric for sure, but a regular cleric is just nice to me.

 

[Stalker0]

Surely you aren't speaking of clerical spells? Bless and Spirit Guardian are both outstanding...

Congrats, you found the two worthy of casting. What else you got?

I hear about clerics casting bless, spiritual weapon, and spirit guardians so much that its becoming like eldritch blast for warlocks....maybe we just make them class features at this point.

 

[Mort]

Yes, we are aware. It’s still non-concentration Heroism for the ENTIRE party, multiple combats per day, starting at level 2. Oh and it ends charm effects as well.

Yes, not only is it a "high level" heroism spell (you have to upcast heroism to get multiple targets, plus it's concentration) It also functions similar to a Devotion paladins 7th level aura (granted it's not quite as good but it also extends out to a 30ft radius, which the paladin doesn't get until 18th level). So at 2nd level it combines 2 decent effects that only a much higher level character could mimic with another class.

 

[Mort]

I've both made clerics and seen clerics played....and while they are "fine"....top tier? Nah, I think plenty of other classes bring more to the table. Now this twilight cleric....now that's a battle cleric for sure, but a regular cleric is just nice to me.

Light clerics also bring plenty to the table, so do life clerics and order clerics - and they get their big stuff at levels 1-2 so you actually get to see it in play - so yeah top tier, at least early (there are some dull levels at mid-high levels).

But I was also commenting about past editions. 3e clerics tended to be powerhouses, but they didn't seem to be that popular.

 

[Bacon Bits]

Both in 3e and now 5e Clerics have been consistently top top tier in terms of power - yet there is still a lack of enthusiasm re: players playing them.

Because they're boring. It's boring to play a cleric. Offensive debuffs have been nerfed into the Challenger Deep. That's why everyone decides to cast Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians or Bless. They're the only above rate spells. Anything else you take is either so narrow that it's probably never going to come up on any given day, or is an under par damage spell, or is a healing spell, or is something with both concentration and saving throws. Oh, and Guidance. How compelling! Nobody finds the bag of infinite d4s annoying!

Other classes get cool things to do other than cast spells, or they're a Wizard and just have a better spell list. Not cleric. Cleric is boring. The spell list is overall narrow. The class abilities are overall narrow. The subclasses are interesting, but your 2nd level ability is always tied to turn undead, which you spend like 4 class levels upgrading to be better against chaff but the subclass alternative never improves. Your 8th level ability means you can spam cantrips better or just look really sad compared to Extra Attack. And divine intervention is so unreliable, and has such a high cooldown, and has such a nebulous benefit that it doesn't really count as an ability at all.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Surely you aren't speaking of clerical spells? Bless and Spirit Guardian are both outstanding...

I am definitely not talking about Bless and Spirit Guardians, but there are other cleric spells that aren't too great. I guess my point is, there's spells like those and then there's... others.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think our two clerics mostly cast a handful of spells.

Guidance
Toll the Dead/Sacred flame
Bless
Healing Word
Spiritual Weapon
Spiritual Guardians

And the occasional heal. That's pretty much it. The MC Sorcerer also uses shield, absorb elements and booming/green Flame Blade.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I think our two clerics mostly cast a handful of spells.

Guidance
Toll the Dead/Sacred flame
Bless
Healing Word
Spiritual Weapon
Spiritual Guardians

And the occasional heal. That's pretty much it. The MC Sorcerer also uses shield, absorb elements and boom/green Flame Blade.

That's pretty much the only options worth using.

 

[Mort]

Because they're boring. It's boring to play a cleric. Offensive debuffs have been nerfed into the Challenger Deep. That's why everyone decides to cast Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians or Bless. They're the only above rate spells. Anything else you take is either so narrow that it's probably never going to come up on any given day, or is an under par damage spell, or is a healing spell, or is something with both concentration and saving throws. Oh, and Guidance. How compelling! Nobody finds the bag of infinite d4s annoying!

Other classes get cool things to do other than cast spells, or they're a Wizard and just have a better spell list. Not cleric. Cleric is boring. The spell list is overall narrow. The class abilities are overall narrow. The subclasses are interesting, but your 2nd level ability is always tied to turn undead, which you spend like 4 class levels upgrading to be better against chaff but the subclass alternative never improves. Your 8th level ability means you can spam cantrips better or just look really sad compared to Extra Attack. And divine intervention is so unreliable, and has such a high cooldown, and has such a nebulous benefit that it doesn't really count as an ability at all.

That's the perception yes.

But if you look at the various abilities in 3e and now in 5e the developers try hard to overcompensate. Clerics get some seriously beefy abilities and they get them early. But the preception persists.