Twin Strike and Careful Strike Question.

[Kitirat]

For an average AC of a monets with assumed max stat (18), what bonus to hit would careful strike require to equal or surpass twin strike in chance to do damage/average damage?

 

[Ulthwithian]

I believe the sole number for this (the math is in a thread here) is... 21 needed to be rolled (after modifiers). Above and below this point, Twin Strike is superior.

So, to answer your question of an average AC of a monster, there is none. Twin Strike is frankly superior in terms of average damage.

 

[Mengu]

For an average AC of a monets with assumed max stat (18), what bonus to hit would careful strike require to equal or surpass twin strike in chance to do damage/average damage?

They can never be equal since it depends on AC. But there needs to be somewhere between 4 and 5 points of difference between the two for each to be meaningfully useful.

The problem is, if you make Careful Strike a +5, suddenly these two powers overshadow Nimble Strike. Trying to balance all three is a mess. If twin strike gets a -2, and Careful attack gets a +3, they balance nicely against each other, but this time, no one wants to play a ranger.

So all rangers get 1 very good at will, and 1 (or 2) to choose from a milder set of at wills.

 

[Ziana]

It's when Careful Attack hits on 18-20 but Twin Strike only hits on 20 that CA has a slight advantage over TS (15% vs 9.75%). In all other circumstances, They're either on-par, or TS is better.

 

[Kitirat]

It's when Careful Attack hits on 18-20 but Twin Strike only hits on 20 that CA has a slight advantage over TS (15% vs 9.75%). In all other circumstances, They're either on-par, or TS is better.

What about this minor alteration.
Careful Stirke, Str or Dex mod + 2. (as listed).

Careful strike criticals on a 18-20 naturally instead of a nautral 20.

Sound good?

Thanks,
Ken

P.S. please do not move this into homebrew hell just yet, I would like to discuss existing mechanics, math and also possible solutions.

 

[Mengu]

What about this minor alteration.
Careful strike criticals on a 18-20 naturally instead of a nautral 20.

Sound good?

Doesn't impact expected damage much.You could add damage bonus from stat back into Careful Strike. Or add half stat bonus, or Wisdom bonus. These are some of the simpler fixes, if you feel it needs fixing. I still think your average Ranger will attack with twin strike 90% of the time when he needs to choose between at-will powers. I can only think this is intentional.

 

[Styracosaurus]

Careful Strike just isn't as much fun as the other Ranger at-wills.

Careful Strike should just be something else entirely than a bonus to damage or to hit.

As it stands, Careful Strike directly competes with Twin Strike and small alterations in the attack roll or damage roll really doesn't change that. It just needs to be something more unique.

 

[Mengu]

Careful Strike just isn't as much fun as the other Ranger at-wills.

Careful Strike should just be something else entirely than a bonus to damage or to hit.

As it stands, Careful Strike directly competes with Twin Strike and small alterations in the attack roll or damage roll really doesn't change that. It just needs to be something more unique.

Agreed. I'm sure there won't be a replacement, but the Martial sourcebook will likely have at least one more at-will ability for the ranger to choose, so you won't feel as bad about ignoring its existance.

 

[Gunpowder]

Question: I assume that all the math is worked out with twin strike just being 1w with no dex mod. I just noticed that fact yesterday.

 

[Stalker0]

In almost every way twin strike is better than careful strike.

There are a number of suggestions, but you actually ahve to give a very large boost to careful strike to keep it competitive.