Two Feats for critique

[Schmoe]

In my quest to create more variety in high-end combat feats, I've come up with the following two, and I would love to hear what others have to say about them.

Followthrough
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility
Benefit: When an opponent takes a 5' movement out of your threatened area, you may immediately take a 5' movement to maintain a threatened area including that opponent. This movement counts as one of your attacks of opportunity for the round. This movement also counts as your movement for your next round.

Furious Charge
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Power Attack, Improved Overrun
Benefit: When you charge an opponent, you may make an attack of opportunity against any foe you threaten at any point during your charge. These attacks of opportunity count against your attacks of opportunity for the next round.

 

[rkanodia]

I like the idea of Furious Charge, but it seems overpowered. In some situations, it would basically amount to 'Multi Spring Attack', especially if the character has a reach weapon.

Maybe something more like, "When this character makes a charge action, he may take an attack of opportunity against any opponent that attempts to prevent him from Overrunning them. This attack is made before checking to see if the Overrun is successful."

This way, the character still gains the 'plow through hordes of weaklings to get to the BBEG' effect, but without getting cheap attacks on uninvolved parties.

Followthrough isn't a bad idea either. I always disliked the archer vs swordsman fight where the archer keeps backing up 5 ft and using full-round attacks. Instead of it taking next round's movement, I would have it say "You may not use Followthrough if you have already taken a 5' step this round." Shrug.

 

[Schmoe]

I like the idea of Furious Charge, but it seems overpowered. In some situations, it would basically amount to 'Multi Spring Attack', especially if the character has a reach weapon.

Maybe something more like, "When this character makes a charge action, he may take an attack of opportunity against any opponent that attempts to prevent him from Overrunning them. This attack is made before checking to see if the Overrun is successful."

That's not a bad idea for a feat, and I could see adding such a feat with a pre-req of Improved Overrun. However, I'm trying to come up with something that rewards either fighters, or those dedicated to a single course of combat, by providing powerful options that weren't previously available. I think that creating strong feats with significant pre-requisites is one way of achieving this. Consider, a non-fighter won't be able to take this feat until at least 12th level (if human), and would have to sacrifice any other flexibility in feats to do so. Even a fighter will have to devote a significant portion of his feats to achieve this path. Does that balance the feat?

I guess that, when considering a true fighter, the feat can be achieved as early as 4th level (if human). That does seem to be a little too early, so it probably needs a BAB prerequisite. What would you suggest? I'm leaning toward BAB of +12.

Is it really too strong to allow a high-level fighter to be able to do this? Remember, you are likely going to incur AoO yourself for your charge if you do this.

[/b]This way, the character still gains the 'plow through hordes of weaklings to get to the BBEG' effect, but without getting cheap attacks on uninvolved parties.

Followthrough isn't a bad idea either. I always disliked the archer vs swordsman fight where the archer keeps backing up 5 ft and using full-round attacks. Instead of it taking next round's movement, I would have it say "You may not use Followthrough if you have already taken a 5' step this round." Shrug. [/B]

Your suggestion makes the feat a little more powerful. Consider the following scenario: Fighter Chuck is in combat with archers A and B. On his round, Chuck charges A. A then tries to take a 5' step to move back from Chuck.

Under my rules, if Chuck uses Followthrough to maintain his threat against A, on his next round he can't move at all. If A is still allive and kicking, that's fine, as Chuck can take a full attack to bring A down. If A is dead for whatever reason, Chuck can't move.

Under your suggestion, if Chuck uses Followthrough to maintain his threat against A, on his next round he can again move as normal. He is, in essence, being granted a "free" 5' of movement. If A is dead or not there for whatever reason, Chuck is free to charge B and repeat the process.

I'm not sure which one I like better. The second option is clearly the more powerful, and the first presents an interesting tactical decision.

 

[Schmoe]

Does anyone else have any comments?

 

[rkanodia]

Hmm. I guess I agree about Followthrough. Normally, I dislike 'borrowing' against the future, but it occurred to me that the way I was thinking about it would make it useless as an actual follow-through step:

Fighter moves towards Wizard and attacks.
Wizard takes 5' backward and casts a spell.
Fighter can't use Followthrough because he moved this round.

I still don't like the Furious Charge as you've written it, but if you are going to use it, +12 BAB sounds like a decent level to start handing out huge combat options.

 

[Felix]

Followthrough: I'd go with use AoO to react to a 5' step taken my an opponent you're in melee with. This means the opponent has to keep on moving to get out of your threatened space. When they do that, they can't make a full round attack, or full round spell. (If anyone says "they declared a 5' step, they can't make a move-equivalent anymore!" I'd answer, the 5' step was the first of 6 5' steps. Let the guy get out of the way.)

The spirit of this Feat is defensive; don't let the other guy get a full round of attacks with a measly 5' step. I like it.

 

[Silver Griffon]

Well, your character never really knows if an opponent is going to stop after 5 feet, and any creature can change its mind and alter its actions in response to other events as long as it has not already done something to limit its options for the round. And as rkanodia says follow through really only works if you started the round threatening the opponent already because you can't move twice. Therefore I suggest the following:

Press
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility
Benefit: When an opponent moves out of an area that you threaten you may immediately move 5 feet in the same direction that the opponent moved, thereby continuing to threaten that opponent. This movement uses up one of your attacks of opportunity for the round. You may not use this feat if you have already moved in that same round, even if you only moved a total of 5 feet. If the opponent continues to move away then you may make an AoO against them normally for moving out of a threatened square unless the opponent takes no action that round other than moving away.

Followthrough
Prequisites: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Press, Spring Attack
Benefit: When an opponent moves out of an area that you threaten you may immediately move to follow that opponent even if you have already moved that round. Doing so uses up one of your attacks of opportunity for the round. This feat does not increase your speed, and you are still limited to moving only as far in a round as your speed allows. You cannot use this feat more than once in a round or in conjunction with the Spring Attack feat.

This way you can move, attack, and then follow as they withdraw. But you are still limited to two moves, total distance up to your speed, just like Spring Attack.