Two Flail Ideas

[Tetsubo]

My first idea is to recreate the classic Spiked-ball-and-chain type of flail. I suggest taking the standard Heavy Flail and changing the damage type from Bludgeoning to Piercing/Bludgeoning to get:

Flail, Ball-and-chain: 20 gp, 1d8 (S), 1d10 (M), 19-20/×2, 10 lb., Piercing/Bludgeoning

My second idea is to take the above weapon, increase the damage die by one step and make it Exotic and call it a Great Flail:

Flail, Great: 30 gp, 1d10 (S), 2d8 (M), 19-20/×2, 20 lb., Piercing/Bludgeoning

In both cases the other weapon characteristics of the normal flail would remain the same:

"Flail or Heavy Flail:

With a flail, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an enemy (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails).

You can also use this weapon to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the flail to avoid being tripped."

How do these sound? Any advice?

 

[smootrk]

I am not an expert by any means but allowing disarms & trips is certainly appropriate. Personally for damage, I would assume slightly smaller damage, except increase the crit multiplier to x3. I had a flail that I picked up in Germany, and it was unwieldy, prone to missing the intended spot (had a improvised wooden target that I would take swipes at), yet when I did strike where I wanted (like neck area) - it would nearly take the 'head' of my wooden target off.

Anyway, thats my 2cents

 

[MarauderX]

Instead of 2d8, perhaps 2d6 is the next step. 2d8 with a critical hit can result in up to 8 more points of damage.

 

[Tetsubo]

Instead of 2d8, perhaps 2d6 is the next step. 2d8 with a critical hit can result in up to 8 more points of damage.

I see your point. But I did base it off of the standard weapon size chart... maybe the chart is out of whack...

 

[Nifft]

If you add a damage type, the damage dice should generally go down, because you'll be punching through DR more often. Similarly, bludgeoning damage typically has a lower damage die and crit range. So, the weapons that should be considered "equal" are the Scythe and the Halberd, both of which are two-handed Martial weapons which deal two damage types.

Piercing often has a 20/x3 crit (except rapiers, of course), while bludgeoning usually has a 20/x2 crit. So IMHO it would make sense to put the spiked flail as:

Spiked Flail: Two Handed Martial weapon, 2d4 20/x3, bludgeoning and piercing (trip, disarm)

Great Spiked Flail: Two Handed Exotic weapon, 2d6 20/x3, bludgeoning and piercing (trip, disarm)

Cheers, -- N

 

[Tetsubo]

So how do we explain the Heavy Mace and Morninstar?

 

[Nifft]

So how do we explain the Heavy Mace and Morninstar?

I can't explain the morningstar. It's just one of those weapons that's better than its comrades. Not my design decision -- if it were up to me, it wouldn't work exactly like a heavy mace, but lighter, cheaper and better.

Similarly, the dagger is just-plain-better than its mates.

But ignoring the design rules just because exceptions exist is bad. New weapons should not be in the just-plain-better category. That way lies power creep.

Does that make sense? Thanks, -- N

 

[bairdec]

I think flails should ignore the shield AC bonus, rather than getting a bonus to disarm.

This is a discussion by some SCA guys that were playing with flails.

 

[Tetsubo]

I think flails should ignore the shield AC bonus, rather than getting a bonus to disarm.

This is a discussion by some SCA guys that were playing with flails.

But that could then be applied to any flexible weapon... such as the Spiked Chain... and ANYTHING that makes the cheesiest weapon in the game better is a bad idea...