Two little questions

[Peter Gibbons]

Right. Bards don't use Silent Spell when spellcasting, ever. As implied, neither would assassins. Right?

No, because this is a limitation of the feat, not the ability to cast spells.

I'm not explaining this well, am I?

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Proficiency is not only relevant, its what governs the rule. Bards are not casting spells in a special way to avoid ASF, but they are proficient in light armor with the special caveat that they are so proficient in it that they can cast spells while wearing it. Take away a bards armor proficiency (and even give it back from another source), and you also take away his ability to ignore ASF.

Just point me to the phrase "so proficient" in the bard's description and I'll concede the argument.

 

[Infiniti2000]

No, because this is a limitation of the feat, not the ability to cast spells.

I'm not explaining this well, am I?

Either that or I'm dense and I'm not trying to be.

I think you are focusing on the term "spellcasting" and saying that just because something (a feat or whatever) refers to "bard spells" that it does not imply "spellcasting." That doesn't make any sense at all to me, but it is what I infer from your comments. I'm saying that anything that says bard spells or refers to a bard casting spells obviously applies to bards whenever they cast spells. Thus, all of the above apply to bards, and thus to assassins (if you follow #1 -- which I do not, btw).

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Either that or I'm dense and I'm not trying to be.

I think you are focusing on the term "spellcasting" and saying that just because something (a feat or whatever) refers to "bard spells" that it does not imply "spellcasting." That doesn't make any sense at all to me, but it is what I infer from your comments. I'm saying that anything that says bard spells or refers to a bard casting spells obviously applies to bards whenever they cast spells. Thus, all of the above apply to bards, and thus to assassins (if you follow #1 -- which I do not, btw).

Let me see if this clarifies my stance:

The rule says: "An assassin casts spells just as a bard does." It doesn't say: "An assassin is considered to be a bard for purposes of using metamagic feats."

 

[RigaMortus2]

Let me see if this clarifies my stance:

The rule says: "An assassin casts spells just as a bard does." It doesn't say: "An assassin is considered to be a bard for purposes of using metamagic feats."

When a Bard casts a spell and wants to use Silent metamagic feat on it, what happens?

Should the following not happen to an Assassin, since he casts a spell as a Bard?

 

[IcyCool]

When a Bard casts a spell and wants to use Silent metamagic feat on it, what happens?

That depends, is he casting a Bard spell?

 

[Hypersmurf]

That depends, is he casting a Bard spell?

Of course, that question applies to the Light Armor as well, since it's only Bard spells that a bard can cast without ASF, not arcane spells from any other class...

-Hyp.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

When a Bard casts a spell and wants to use Silent metamagic feat on it, what happens?

His player looks up the Silent Spell feat description, reads the rules there, and applies them. The description says that bard spells cannot be enhanced by the feat, and the spell the bard is casting is (presumably) a bard spell, so the bard's player concludes that it cannot be enhanced by the feat.

Should the following not happen to an Assassin, since he casts a spell as a Bard?

The assassin's player looks up the Silent Spell feat description, reads the rules there, and applies them. The description says that bard spells cannot be enhanced by the feat; since (again, presumably) the spell the assassin is casting is not a bard spell (and not treated as a bard spell for purposes of metamagic feats), that rule doesn't apply to him. He casts the spell, which is enhanced by the feat.

 

[SBMC]

No, because this is a limitation of the feat, not the ability to cast spells.

I'm not explaining this well, am I?

But his point is that some here argue that an assassin casts as a bard does; that SHOULD mean EVERYTHING applies when regarding casting spells; including this rule regarding the silent casting feat and ignoring ASF.

 

[SBMC]

Let me see if this clarifies my stance:

The rule says: "An assassin casts spells just as a bard does." It doesn't say: "An assassin is considered to be a bard for purposes of using metamagic feats."

How can an a"ssassin cast spells just as a bard does" and then not get all the same benefits AND limitations?

This feat also needs erratta to clarify.